Vinyl Cleaning: VPI + Audio Desk + Klaudio

[Golucid]

Yesterday [17 April 2015], I called Paul with Ultrasystems, the Audio Desk Systems USA distributor.

I had a short but sweet conversation about cleaning methods and he agrees that there is no single vinyl cleaning solution. My thought, yes ultrasonics are great, traditional methods are also very good and sometimes necessary. A complete cleaning approach?

For example, I told him that I was playing Pink Floyd the wall vinyl and there was this section that just wasn't playing well. I processed it through the VPI HW 27 Typhoon, played it... still a bit murky and then again, processed it through the Audio Desk, and Boom! Sweet spot. Flawless.

At the moment, my Klaudio is in the shop with the manufacture, so I couldn't give it a final clean through that system.

The nice thing about Paul. He seemed very agreeable that the use of all three systems is an ideal set up, if you can kick down the cash. He said, processing the final cleans after the VPI through either the Audio Desk or Klaudio would likely render the most ideal results.

Since I have three machines, I am curious about buying the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic. That would make 4 units. Paul didn't have a suggestion for this scenerio.

Perhaps use the Klaudio for the final cleanse and rinse?

What are your thoughts?

[audioguy3107]

I can't imagine why you would need 4 different cleaning units unless you were a serious dealer/collector and had to clean thousands of records for your business. If you wanted to cover all you bases, you should have an ultrasonic and a traditional cleaning machine. That should be enough.

- Buck

[Golucid]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

If you wanted to cover all you bases, you should have an ultrasonic and a traditional cleaning machine.

I thought I would give my self a chance to compare. Having all three and maybe four, gives me a really opportunity to compare results. It's kinda kewl having them all...and have you seen the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic? It looks really kewl!

I'm a geek. I like having toys. I see what you mean though, one or two should be sufficient.

[audioguy3107]

Originally Posted by Golucid

I thought I would give my self a chance to compare. .

How would you compare record cleaning results? As soon as you clean a record with one machine, it's going to be different than it was before you cleaned it. There would be no way to compare apples to apples since you would have no idea which records have what degree of "dirtiness" in comparison to others. The only way you could probably get an idea would be to clean a huge batch of new records one way and a huge comparable batch with another machine. That would give you a bit of an idea but still not be a great way to compare. Just use a great quality cleaner and listen to the music.

- Buck

[Golucid]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

How would you compare record cleaning results? As soon as you clean a record with one machine, it's going to be different than it was before you cleaned it. There would be no way to compare apples to apples since you would have no idea which records have what degree of "dirtiness" in comparison to others. The only way you could probably get an idea would be to clean a huge batch of new records one way and a huge comparable batch with another machine. That would give you a bit of an idea but still not be a great way to compare. Just use a great quality cleaner and listen to the music.

- Buck

Great points. Last night, I purchased 4 NEW copies of Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon 180G.

I plan to listen to each one and take notes, label each record so that I know which one had what noises. Then 1 by one go through the process so that I can identify which process is most effective.

1. clean two record with the VPI
2. clean one record with the Audio Desk
3. clean one record with the Klaudio

Record results. Document results

Then

4. One record cleaned with the VPI, now clean with the Audio Desk
5. One record cleaned with the VPI, now clean with the Klaudio

Document results

6. Now the ones cleaned only with the Ultrasonics, now clean in reverse with the ultrasonics. So, one that was first cleaned in the Klaudio, now clean with the Audio Desk and vis versa.

Document results

And so on...this is a lot of work, but for me. It's just pure fun.

[audioguy3107]

Originally Posted by Golucid

And so on...this is a lot of work, but for me. It's just pure fun.

I hear ya, but you have no baseline......any one of those new LPs could be pristine and clean, a bad pressing, or really dirty. If they were all the same fresh out of the packaging then your plan would be fine, but that's not the way vinyl works. I'm just trying to save you some time. What you should do is return all those new DSOTMs and go on ebay or wherever you like to buy records and by a NM or M copy of an original UK Harvest pressing. That will save you all kinds of time and it'll sound much better. Believe me.

- Buck

[Golucid]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

I hear ya, but you have no baseline......any one of those new LPs could be pristine and clean, a bad pressing, or really dirty. If they were all the same fresh out of the packaging then your plan would be fine, but that's not the way vinyl works. I'm just trying to save you some time. What you should do is return all those new DSOTMs and go on ebay or wherever you like to buy records and by a NM or M copy of an original UK Harvest pressing. That will save you all kinds of time and it'll sound much better. Believe me.

- Buck

audioguy3107, I am not following you completely, can you help me out here because, if I can do this in a more correct way. I'd like to give it a fair and honest try. So, I am open to any and all suggestions.

I'm excited. This will be fun!

[audioguy3107]

Originally Posted by Golucid

audioguy3107, I am not following you completely, can you help me out here because, if I can do this in a more correct way. I'd like to give it a fair and honest try. So, I am open to any and all suggestions.

I'm excited. This will be fun!

David - What I'm saying is that in general, no two vinyl records are going to be the same, even straight out of the packaging and brand new. It depends on when they were pressed, what quality of the pressing they are, and how far (i.e. how far into the batch) into the run the pressing is among other things. You have no way of knowing ahead of time unlike CDs which are pretty much all the same. I purchased a Radiohead album that was noisy as crap from a store and swapped it out for the exact same album at the same store the next day. The new one was quiet and perfect. It may not have had anything to do with cleaning (I cleaned the crap out of both), it was just a bad copy which happens. The only way to (accurately) compare cleaning machines would be to have the same EXACT record in the same EXACT condition and use the different machines but that's just about impossible. Like I said before, you probably could get a pretty good idea if you cleaned large batches with one and then large batches with another....you would probably know after listening which machine in general is doing a better job, but there are better things to do with time. Make sense?

- Buck

[Golucid]

Thanks Buck for giving me a good heads up what to do!

BTW:I am a Radiohead fan too.

David

[Whart]

Golucid: You are preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned respecting multiple cleaning steps, at least for older records. As I think I've already mentioned in this thread, I find noticeable benefit in multiple, different methods, e.g. vacuum type followed by ultrasonic. As you know, I've had both the AD and the KL, so I'm pretty agnostic as their respective strengths- I do like the ability to finish in the KL using only reagent water. The new Clearaudio might be interesting as one of two cleaners- but I have not played with one- I assume (and may be wrong in this) that the "sonic" (not sub, or super or ultra, just plain old) might be a good substitute for the agitation necessary with some of the cleaning fluids. I prefer to manually apply fluids, rather than run them through a machine that distributes the fluid, for a variety of reasons, including using different fluids (followed by a pure water rinse) and don't know if this newest machine permits that and the benefit of the 'sonic' cleaning.
Re your evaluation of Dark Side, while I appreciate you are doing this to evaluate the effectiveness of the cleaning machines/processes, you should find yourself a UK press A3/B3 if that record floats your boat. It sounds very, very good, having compared it to a number of other pressings (I don't have the Pro Use, but an earlier 2nd Japanese press, as well as the old MoFi, along with an A3/B2 and some others). Let us know what you conclude.
PS: I see Buck already made the point about the UKs, I found that the A3/B3 sounds better than the A3/B2- I'm doing this from memory, but the B2, while earlier, is a little more grainy.