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Turntables & Tonearms Where Analog still Rules |
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#1
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Anti-Skate with heavy 12" tonearms
Hello,
I do not want to get too far down the "anti-skate rabbit hole", but I would like to start a discussion specifically on anti-skate with heavy 12" tonearms. Every scenario is difference and I understand that anti-skating is a moving target. I currently use the Schick 12" (http://thomas-schick.com/en/produkte/12-schick-arm) on my Lenco. These arms are often used with heavy SPU style heads, with high downforce. When used with lighting cartridges with more moderate downforce, is there a need for increasing the anti-skate more than a moderate amount? Thanks for the discussion, Steve |
#2
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You should need little anti-skate with 12" arms in general - since offset angle is what causes the need for anti-skate, and this angle will be very small in most 12" setups.
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#3
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Quote:
I find with limited anti-skate, the arm races towards the centre of the spindle: this is consistent with various carts. The centre vocal image of the music consistently tends to the right: this is consistent across many carts, azimuth, amps, speakers... Increasing anti-skate significantly, allows the stylus and arm to move in a controlled manner and centres the vocal image. |
#4
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Quote:
Very puzzling.
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Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines. |
#5
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"Uncompensated skating force results actually in the stylus mistracking the outer groove wall which results in distortion in the right channel." My entire image was not leaning right, mainly just the vocal portion. Other instruments would remain stereo centre. Also, the issue was intermittent: depending on LP, material, track... The article posted above is starting to shed some light. |
#6
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#7
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Quote:
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#8
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Anti-Skate with heavy 12" tonearms
It is from Analog Magik, a maker of test records and software. There is no attribution of the original document, unfortunately.
I have seen some of the info before in AES Journals, and there is a bibliography in the document that may be helpful. Tom
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v Last edited by W9TR; 01-07-2020 at 09:03 PM. |
#9
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Interesting comments:
"Skating force compensation enhances trackability by about 20-25 %. For obtaining equivalent trackability by increasing tracking force alone (without any compensation) an increase of 50 % would be required [2]." "When playing unmodulated grooves, the elliptical stylus produces a greater skating force than a spherical stylus (see fig. 5)." "Groove radius has an effect on skating force in that there is a minimum at about 3.5 inch with maxima at outer an inner grooves, the value at the outer groove being higher than at the inner groove [2], the curve being hence of somewhat parabolic shape. The skating force varies between 90 and 100 % of its maximum value" |
#10
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Take aways for my specific set up include:
Offset Angle and Effective Length of the tonearm play a role in the horizontal tracking error calculation, which is fed into the calculations for the Skating Force. Skating Force increases drastically as tracking force increases. Skating Force is largely a product of the surface material, subject material, and modulations of the grooves. The article focuses on causes of the Skating Force. I am still not sure if the mass of the tonearm is related to amount torque required 'generally' balance the Skating Force. |
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