LS-27 vs. Pass XP-20?

[BillK]

Has anyone heard both of these that can comment one way or another?

It's about time for a new preamp and these are the top two contenders for me given they're also in the same general price range.

From a purely functional point of view, the LS-27 is the stronger contender given it has more inputs and both balanced and SE available for all the inputs, compared to the conventional two balanced, three SE on the Pass - not to mention the wonderful sound of tubes.

On the other hand the Pass, being SS, has no tube replacement costs as I like to let my preamp run 24/7/365, and has received glowing reviews.

Any help would be appreciated; a Ref. 5 would be a budget stretch, but its higher tube count means higher ongoing tube costs.

[cmalak]

Bill...I have not heard eaither although I have heard the LS-26, which I owned for a year, before upgrading to the Ref 3. From what I hear the LS-27 bests the Ref 3 on some counts, so I can certainly give it a thumbs up. Having said that, my comments are not useful to you as I have no view on the XP-20, so cannot compare them for you. I did want to point out though that the 2 6H30s are of minimal cost. They are rated for 10,000 hrs, so even if you do decide to keep the preamp on for 24/7/365, that means 8,736 hrs of usage per year, so you would have to change the tubes every 14 months at a cost of $60-$70 for the pair for the standard 6H30s and $400 for the pair if you go with the 6H30-DR supertubes. Not too bad. Personally, I would not keep the preamp on 24/7/365 because the tubes warm up within 15 mins of turning the preamp on. So all I am saying is don't worry about the tube costs. Just compare them as best you can on what you think will sonically be the best fit with your system.

I hope this helps.

[BillK]

The preamp would be on because the entire system is generally on all the time; aside from power outages or switching speaker cables, my amp was last turned off just to turn it off in, oh, 2005 or so. I like to hear music from my system all the time, and it's also my A/V system so when not playing music it's the news, or Doctor Who or a Blu-ray or whatever else I'm watching - something that will definitely have to change if I get new Pass amps.

The fact that tube costs would be annual and low is why I'm considering the 27; the Ref. 5 with four 6H30s plus the 6530 and 6H30 in the power supply is a bigger ongoing maintenance issue (though obviously not as bad as it would be with an amp like the Ref. 150.)

[cmalak]

Bill...eventhough small signal tubes can go bad, when they do, they do not arc or catch on fire (sometimes that happens) like power output tubes, however, generally speaking, I would not feel comfortable leaving a tube piece of gear on 24/7. If something does happen that causes an electrical issue of some kind and the preamp is not supervised (i.e., you are not around), it would always make me worry. Personally, I would go with a SS preamp for your specific situation. Just my take on it. Good luck either way.

[BillK]

Thanks, I appreciate the information.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Bill...eventhough small signal tubes can go bad, when they do, they do not arc or catch on fire (sometimes that happens) like power output tubes, however, generally speaking, I would not feel comfortable leaving a tube piece of gear on 24/7. If something does happen that causes an electrical issue of some kind and the preamp is not supervised (i.e., you are not around), it would always make me worry. Personally, I would go with a SS preamp for your specific situation. Just my take on it. Good luck either way.

+1

I went through this myself recently. I like my music on a lot also. I am now back to all solid state after cycling through and alternating tubes and solid state. At one point I had a Pass XP-10 with XA30.5 and really enjoyed that combo. The pre was on all the time and the amp was on 12-16 hrs a day. The amp took a good 30-45 minutes to sound good and great after a couple of hours. I personally would not hesitate to try an XP-20 after my experience with the XP-10. I don't know how an XP-20 would mate to a tube amp, maybe someone else will comment. One thing you don't want to do is keep an amp on and the preamp off. Good luck!

Joe

[Ritmo]

Bill,

I own the LS27. It has about 200 hrs. I can tell you that I'm extremely happy with this line stage.

From a sound perspective, very much the ARC signature. That is, very transparent, terrific soundstage and image. I can sit an listen for hours without getting fatigued.

I'm running the LS27 with the ARC DS450 - speakers are Revel Salon 2s.

I have not heard the Pass X20. I'm sure it is a nice unit.

Cheers,
Mike

[BillK]

Thanks again; I like the idea of staying all SS, but the LS-27 seemed the best way to get tube sound without being a slave to tube replacement.

However the hiss level of the 27 concerns me; I know I've heard the hiss when I had an LS-17 in-home as a demo, so I'll try to borrow the 17 again and concentrate on whether it's annoying when it's really quiet or not.

I suspect I'll stay SS so that even with the 600w current draw of a pair of X250.5s I could leave the system on all the time anyway, or at least just power down the bass amp or something.

[turntable]

I am currently listening to the xp-20 and it is really good. VERY quiet, neutral sounding but in a musical way and handles music in a coherent manner top to bottom without any obvious peaks or dips in frequency response. The pass is more transparent but not in analytical way.

One thing that it does extremely well is its so soundstage extension. It has more upper air than the ls27 and my cj gat. Never heard that in ss pre amp before.

I tried the ls27 last year. The ls27 is a nice sounding unit but it really bugged me that each of the 3 gain settings it sounded different. The high gain was just too spotlit but had the best gain structure for my system. Have not had that problem with the pass xp-20.

High recommendation for the xp-20.

[TMcD]

One thing to remember is the LS27 will sound great after 30 minutes of warm up, in fact it will sound fine right after its turned on. Unlike SS a tube component will not be sound better if left on all the time.
I had a Bryston 4B SST with a LS26 and left the Bryton on 24-7 and turn the ARC on when listening.