System on 15hrs/day. Use tubes?

[Kingsrule]

My system is on 15+hours every day. Would you use REF 250's in this system?
Looking at power amps only.
If not, what amp would you use?

[PHC1]

From Audio Research website: (I think they are talking about 6550 and the KT120 do have a longer lifespan)

"Average tube life will depend on several parameters: product type, how the product is installed, loudspeaker efficiency, room size and acoustic damping, listening habits or average sound pressure levels, A.C. line stability and purity, and other circumstances. Generally, preamplifier tubes last 5,000 hours or more, while power amplifier output tubes will last up to 2,000 hours. Near the end of their useful sonic life, aging vacuum tubes may degrade the sonic character of the product(s) they are used in. The sound may become somewhat dry and lifeless, with a noticeable decrease in harmonic richness or bloom. Bass response may be diminished, and musical dynamics may flatten out or compress. Toward the very end of their service life, tubes may become noisy, noticeable as a slight rushing sound or rustling noise. It is far better to replace vacuum tubes prior to the end of their service life, before severe sonic degradation or outright failure occur. Running vacuum tubes into failure may damage to other internal components and cause needless repair expense."

But even if say you do get 2x the lifespan from a KT120 used in REF250, at 15 hrs a day, 4,000 hrs comes up in 266 days. I think it is safe to say you will need a re-tube at least once a year realistically... Occasionally tubes will go earlier... occasionally they may take out some circuitry with them... If your system really is on 15 hrs a day, I personally would not be leaning towards amplifiers that have something like 11 various tubes each but to each their own.

[joeinid]

Thanks for the posting Serge. This is a major reason I have not jumped on big tube amp. I am closer to 12 hrs a day and wold not want problems. Maybe for the weekend sessions, nice tube amps would/could be used in moderation in my system.

[redm]

Originally Posted by g997

My system is on 15+hours every day. Would you use REF 250's in this system?
Looking at power amps only.
If not, what amp would you use?

That's a ton, I bet you will overall end up with better life then most Tube users, using the expected lifespan consecutively instead of in small spurts will be better for the life of the tubes. (at least based on what I've read, anyone more familiar with tubes, please correct me if I'm spouting rubbish)

[Whart]

I think the issue is less the tube life, per se and more about safety, fire hazard if you are not there and heat stressing other parts like capacitors. I posted a link on another thread from Sear Studios, a guy who had tons of vintage analog equipment in his recording studio (very famous studio) and he pretty much demolished the idea of letting everything run all the time. Having said that, the manufacturer of my old line stage (Lamm L2) recommended that it be left on all the time- it had a tube rectified power supply. Less stress on the tubes.
So, once a year I replaced the tubes. Not a big deal.
If I had to go solid state, I'd seriously consider Dart.
But, I've been using tubes since around 1973 and haven't made that move (yet).

[redm]

I didn't see him say he wasnt there. I assume he just used the system a considerable amount daily. What would the point be in leaving a non-tube system on 15 hours a day if he wasn't there?

[mbovaird]

Originally Posted by g997

My system is on 15+hours every day. Would you use REF 250's in this system?
Looking at power amps only.
If not, what amp would you use?

If your system is on 15 hours a day, you may not love buying and switching out tubes once a year - and you may truly not listen as much because in the back of your mind you will know those tubes are burning away.

As for alternatives, it depends on a lot. What size is your room? What is the efficiency/ohm rating of your speakers, etc. More importantly, does your room have a separate AC/Thermostat? If not - then Class A amps like the Pass XA series might not be the best choice (due to heat)....but they have a tube like sound! If your speakers are fairly efficient (lets say 90db/4ohm) - then the Pass xa60.5's could be an option and they don't get too hot. The bigger Pass xa series do however.

Failing that, I would look at the ModWright KWA-150SE's. I like anything with MOSFET transistors to give you a tube like sound.

Boulder 1060 is a good choice as well (used of course).

If you want to stick with ARC, what about the ARC DS450M?

Mike

[BlueChiaro]

Originally Posted by g997

My system is on 15+hours every day. Would you use REF 250's in this system?
Looking at power amps only.
If not, what amp would you use?

Truth be told, I actually use my system less now that I have the 250s. I know it's stupid, but I worry about the life span, so don't leave the house with the system running...like I would in the past. My wife even said, "What's the point of having this great gear if we don't listen to it as much?" She has a point...

So, personally, I wouldn't go tubes on amps that spend that much time on, but you're not me, and your tolerance for changing tubes and the associated expense may be (and probably is) greater than mine. There is also the heat factor which I don't believe anyone has mentioned (Edit: Mike beat me to it while I was typing!)...it's not an insignificant consideration depending on your room.

I don't really have an amp suggestion as I don't try enough gear to provide meaningful input...good luck with your decision.

[Kingsrule]

Originally Posted by mbovaird

If your system is on 15 hours a day, you may not love buying and switching out tubes once a year - and you may truly not listen as much because in the back of your mind you will know those tubes are burning away.

As for alternatives, it depends on a lot. What size is your room? What is the efficiency/ohm rating of your speakers, etc. More importantly, does your room have a separate AC/Thermostat? If not - then Class A amps like the Pass XA series might not be the best choice (due to heat)....but they have a tube like sound! If your speakers are fairly efficient (lets say 90db/4ohm) - then the Pass xa60.5's could be an option and they don't get too hot. The bigger Pass xa series do however.

Failing that, I would look at the ModWright KWA-150SE's. I like anything with MOSFET transistors to give you a tube like sound.

Boulder 1060 is a good choice as well (used of course).

If you want to stick with ARC, what about the ARC DS450M?

Mike

Mike
Thanks for the insight
I usually use Wilson speakers, Sasha's right now

No one really comments on the ARC DS450M's. Have you heard them?
The PASS XS series looks interesting, had Aleph mono's years ago and they were great. Dart mono's would be interesting but the lead time seems to be months..

Would like to consider energy use/heat in my quest but its not a deal breaker consideration.

BTW, looking for mono amps only

Regards

G

[mbovaird]

You are quite welcome. The Sasha's can be quite revealing, so I see why you are looking for a little tube magic. At 91db and 4 ohms, you can sort of have your pick of the litter. Given those specs, and depending how loud you play your music, I would be temped to look at either the Pass xa60.5's, Pass xa100.5's or ModWright KWA-150SE's.

Just a heads up, in your note you mention the Pass XS series. There is a XS series, but you may have to sell your home and a kidney to afford them! They are very pricey ($80K range). The XA series on the other hand (which I own and LOVE), is very reasonably priced and wonderful to boot.

I have not heard the ARC DS450M - but there is a person here on AA who owns the DS450 (stereo version). Last time I heard, he was going to upgrade to the monoblock version. Perhaps he will chime in.

Mike