Sonos Audio Quality

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Poobah,
I'd be very interested in your assessment of the Cullen modified ZP-90. Seems to me they may be onto something.

I have no doubt a properly setup media server should be as good as or better than a transport/DAC. But that's not where my reality is right now with the Sonos system.

I was hoping to aviod building a dedicted server, so I thoght the Sonos would be a good alternative.

I really enjoy my SonoS for what it is, a wireless delivery system. You can mod it all you want but you are still better off spending money on a very good DAC and a high capacity server that holds your music at the highest possible bit rate, the best being no compression at all. Even then not all computers have the ability to save your CD's to a hard drive perfectly since the ability to read and provide error correction varies widely. This is where I feel a quality a CD transport wins out.

[j3brow]

I have near future plans to FINALLY start the journey of server based media I am prob 90% sure I will go with a Sonos ZP90 .... at least to get my feet wet. I will go into it with low expectations so as not to be disheartened like the OP, all the while hoping to be pleasantly surprised. At a minimum, the Sonos will allow me access to Rhapsody in my 2 channel listening room -- mainly for discovering new (and old) music to purchase. I have been listening to rhapsody via my iPhone/computer for 5 months now and love the ability to create a huge library of favs and need-to-listen to albums. At best, im hoping to find the right combination of lossless rips (prob go with wav), ethernet connectivity, and digital cable to achieve very close to if not as good as my MCD500 thru the MCD500 DACs. Dont forget, all digital cables are NOT created equal. Finally, I will be getting the Cullen modification to my ZP90, I have read many user accounts and the mod seems to be a worthwhile upgrade for $550. This mod is designed to be used with high-end DACs (which i consider the MCD500 to be) even if the MCD reclocks I believe the mod will be audible.

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Poobah,
I'd be very interested in your assessment of the Cullen modified ZP-90. Seems to me they may be onto something.

I have no doubt a properly setup media server should be as good as or better than a transport/DAC. But that's not where my reality is right now with the Sonos system.

I was hoping to aviod building a dedicted server, so I thoght the Sonos would be a good alternative.

Well someday I might be able to give you better insight... All i need to do is buy some new floorstanders for my rear surrounds.. move my 805's to the bedroom, along with my mc300, and a pre-amp I'll also need to buy (I already sold my sunfire to my brother)... Then I'll have a reason to buy another zp90. (a regular one which I can A/B). But that might be a good while before that happens.

[blacsno]

Originally Posted by j3brow

I have near future plans to FINALLY start the journey of server based media I am prob 90% sure I will go with a Sonos ZP90 .... at least to get my feet wet. I will go into it with low expectations so as not to be disheartened like the OP, all the while hoping to be pleasantly surprised. At a minimum, the Sonos will allow me access to Rhapsody in my 2 channel listening room -- mainly for discovering new (and old) music to purchase. I have been listening to rhapsody via my iPhone/computer for 5 months now and love the ability to create a huge library of favs and need-to-listen to albums. At best, im hoping to find the right combination of lossless rips (prob go with wav), ethernet connectivity, and digital cable to achieve very close to if not as good as my MCD500 thru the MCD500 DACs. Dont forget, all digital cables are NOT created equal. Finally, I will be getting the Cullen modification to my ZP90, I have read many user accounts and the mod seems to be a worthwhile upgrade for $550. This mod is designed to be used with high-end DACs (which i consider the MCD500 to be) even if the MCD reclocks I believe the mod will be audible.

I understand the reason for wireless.... but try for hard wired connection from server to Sonos. Reason a BIGGER pipe for data transfer, 1GBit network setup. Lessen to zero the chance for packet loss "ie distortions". Please understand that while using the flac format Sonos MOD or OEM isn't going to improve the sound, being fed into a DAC! Flac is only a storage container, hence the lossless format. The Sonos only unpacks the box, DAC does the heavy lifting per say. If the Sonos MOD is the DAC, then the music quality is only as good the DAC. Pandora, MP3's, or any type of streaming music is already tainted ! Sooooo garbage in... and you know the rest! Keep the $550.00 towards the MCD500....

Ken

[mike175gr]

I think that the real challenge is the wireless variable. I have an Escient FP-1 that I use in my bedroom system. I pull music off of my MS750 and then feed it into a wonderful DAC. It sounds good, but nowhere near as wonderful as the file being played hard wired from the server to the DAC. I like the unit for casual listening and that is about it. I would love to get another MS300/750 for my bedroom system..

[W9TR]

"I've been waiting for you, Obi-wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the master."

"Today will be a day long remembered. It has seen the death of Kenobi errrr CD transports, and soon the fall of the rebellion errrr over price music servers."

Sound as good as the transport and dac in the MCD 500, I wish this Sonos/DAC combo would! Too much interference with the music, it has.

I'll try a hardwired connection, and a different digital cable. Since my original post, I've read a lot of threads on the Cullen mods and people seem to think they work. The user interface is so good, I'm really motivated to make this work.

Either way, it's here to stay for all the other reasons mentioned.

[1KW]

I have my sonos in the 2 channel room hardwired to my modem/router. I never lose connection to the sonos. Prior to this I used a airport express to attach to the sonos network in my 2 channel room and I would occasionally have packet loss issues. I have 4 other zones set up (total of 5) and now that one sonos is hardwired the quality of the music is better. Lastly I would also try using a different digital coax cable that is 75 ohm, not a regular rca cable. You may also want to try a fiberoptic cable. Remember to adjust the midi set up for high resolution, when importing CD's if your using itunes choose lossless and error correction should be turned on for importing. If you do these things you should have good results.

[W9TR]

Ken, Mike, et all;
I now have the Zoneplayer hooked directly to the router. This made a huge difference. Thanks for the tip. I am trying a variety of cables. I have a good 75 ohm digital cable made with Belden 1694A coax and that is also making a positive difference. It is now much harder for me to hear any differences, so what's left could be in my head. I'll report back after I've had more opportunity to listen.

[blacsno]

Originally Posted by 1KW

I have my sonos in the 2 channel room hardwired to my modem/router. I never lose connection to the sonos. Prior to this I used a airport express to attach to the sonos network in my 2 channel room and I would occasionally have packet loss issues. I have 4 other zones set up (total of 5) and now that one sonos is hardwired the quality of the music is better. Lastly I would also try using a different digital coax cable that is 75 ohm, not a regular rca cable. You may also want to try a fiberoptic cable. Remember to adjust the midi set up for high resolution, when importing CD's if your using itunes choose lossless and error correction should be turned on for importing. If you do these things you should have good results.

+1 When creating and using the lossless format. That file is a CLONE of the original CD albeit a close one depending how well the cloning process. If the original CD is scratched, manufactured poorly, or pick anything of the Murphy laws. Your mileage will vary on the process, no CD transport can over come "garbage in....garbage out" you can't buy your way out !!

The reason is that the high end CD transport follow the EXACT process of ripping albeit they converting to digital then analog. While we select lossless for tagging files!

If you choose to rip via PC/Apple software is available that can do check against a database. To verify if indeed that ripped CD is a PERFECT clone. Alas if the CD was mastered poorly. Hey!!! Least EVERYONE has the same crappy CD! That is inherit flaw of the highly praised feature, the same perfect flaw! See: Joe Sample Spellbound....... grrrrr I won't rant about it!!!

My horror story is the CD Four Play Energy. Great awesome CD, but the quality of the CD is suspect. EAC software went error..error...error....! I've been using this Plextor CD-rom for years! Soooo I'll try my newer laptop same thing! Can't return the CD to the store, what is the reason sir!? Went to another store, in hope that was a bad run of CD's. Well that CD didn't produce as many errors. Yet when a A/B comparison was done I couldn't hear a difference via CD or FLAC. The moral of that story is let your ears be the final judge!

Ken

[j3brow]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Ken, Mike, et all;
I now have the Zoneplayer hooked directly to the router. This made a huge difference. Thanks for the tip. I am trying a variety of cables. I have a good 75 ohm digital cable made with Belden 1694A coax and that is also making a positive difference. It is now much harder for me to hear any differences, so what's left could be in my head. I'll report back after I've had more opportunity to listen.

AWESOME! thanks for the update...