just thoughts......

[Fabiano]

Guys, recently I've been thinking how to get the most of my Analog rig. These are just thoughts for now and no decision will be taken before extensive listening, when and if I decide to change anything.

You can see my current gear on my signature below. Even though I don't have any AR piece of gear (yet), I really like it. I have several friends that are major fans.

I was contemplating to buy a phono preamp from ARC, PH8 or even the Ref2.

If going the more costly road, ie, expending around $13k I see 2 options. One simple thing would be just buy the Ref 2 Phono preamp. Another option would be selling my current C2300 and buy a Ref 5 + Ph8. What do you thing?

Either Ref 2 or Ref 5, I am considering the SE versions.

tks for any input.



best,

[SundayNiagara]

Having heard the REF 5/Mac 2301 combo driving NOLA, (awesome speaker) Baby Grands a couple of years ago I suggest you go with the SE phono first.

My thoughts on this subject are, (most important part of a hi fi system is the front end - turntable/arm/cartridge). Therefore, the second most important part would be the phono stage.

[microstrip]

Go for the REF2 phono - but remember it will wide the gap between great digital and vinyl.

After I got the Anniversary Preamplifier I found that digital had many hidden qualities. But when the Phono Reference 2 arrived vinyl took its revenge!

[karsajid]

Start with the Ref 2 and get the Ref 5 later if you are happy.

Or get the PH8 + LS 27 combo. (it will be an upgrade over the C2300 phono section)

I do not recommend the PH8 + Ref 5. Not enough gain in the PH8.

[Fabiano]

SundayNiagara, microstrip and karsajid: thanks for the tips!!! you guys are pointing me on a direction I was not expecting. My instincts would drive me first toward the ref 5 preamp....

Guys, more opinions most welcome!

[BillK]

I had a nice call with Audio Research the other day and they actually talked me out of the Ref 2 SE and into the PH8 - "If you've got the spare cash, of course the Ref 2 SE would be wonderful, but I think you'd be extremely happy with the PH8 and can save yourself some money."

I love manufacturers who are more concerned with keeping customers happy than selling their flagship; it's a great way of engendering goodwill.

[Fabiano]

BillK, did they convince you??? I mean, I also really respect when someone tries to sell you something that costs less, when they could be pushing for the expensive one. But, that aside, did the rational make sense to you?? Sorry to bug you, but I'd be interested if you could reveal more of this conversation.

[BillK]

Yes, they convinced me to at least audition a PH8.

I currently have a PH5 and was looking to make a big step up.

I asked about what, sonically I could expect if updating to the PH6, PH8 or Ref 2 SE.

Basically they said even an upgrade to the PH6 would be of sonic benefit, but they felt the PH8 was the price/performance sweet spot of the range. Yes, the Ref 2 SE will sound better than the PH8 will, but they felt the lion's share of performance improvement would be in the jump from the PH6 to the PH8 - the person I was talking to felt that the 8 was much better than the 6, but that the 8 possessed perhaps 90% of the sound quality of the Ref 2 SE.

The MSRPs are:

PH6: $3495
PH8: $6995
Ref 2 SE: $12,995

Or, since the PH8 is 2x the price of the PH6, and the Ref 2 SE is a little less than 2x the price of the PH8, if that extra 10% of sound quality is worth $6K to you, (or you can use the other phono inputs, alternate EQ curves, or like the balanced output) by all means get the Ref 2 SE.

As an aside, keep tube replacement costs in mind; ARC recommends you replace signal tubes at 5000 hours, power supply tubes at about 2500:

PH6: 2 x 6H30 signal tubes
PH8: 2 x 6H30 signal tubes, 6550 and 6H30 in power supply
Ref 2 SE: 4 x 6H30 signal tubes, 6550C and 6H30 in power supply

However - this advice was given keeping in mind my preamp (Mark Levinson No. 380S) has a lot of gain to offer (up to 18 dB), as does the LS 27 (up to 24 dB), so the PH6/PH8's 58 dB of gain will work just fine.

If you're considering the Ref 5 SE preamp, which only offers up to 12 dB of gain, you'd be better off with the PH2SE, which offers up to 74dB of gain.

Oh, and you had mentioned a $13K budget - that would come close to netting you a PH8 and LS 27; the Ref 2 SE and Ref 5 SE are $13K each.

[larevoj]

I can smell the Ref5SE on its way...

[karsajid]

BillK, The Ref 5 will give you only 6 db of gain with the PH8 since you will be using its single ended connection. This will restrict choice of cartridges and besides, the Ref 5 does sound better in balanced mode.

My advice to Fabiano is to get the PH8 and LS27. And upgrade the amp to a REF 150. This will be a killer system with the SF Futura, and can be done for the same money as a Ref 2 + 5.

I am a REF5SE and Ref 210 with factory KT120 owner. I can attest that the synergy of an all ARC system will surpass simply putting a Ref pre or phono in the chain!

But be warned, ARC and Mac have different sonic signatures, so you should be certain which way you want to go.