Ref 5 SE - Over 400 hrs

[Ritmo]

Originally Posted by Chewie

Hi all,

My first proper post on AA, though I've been a very long time lurker, so be gentle! . . .

I'm in the process of setting up a my new stereo system (being mainly into HT, and listening to music through that up until now).

The speakers are already ordered - Revel Salon 2's - so I'm now looking into pre-amps and DAC's, and really like the look of, and what I've read about, the Ref 5 SE.

However, the price new is stretching the budget right now, so I am considering a second hand Ref 3 until I can upgrade to the Ref 5SE.

I have a couple of questions then:

1. If I went for a high quality DAC (Jeff Rowland Aries, Chord QBD76 HDSD), most seem to have good digital or even analogue volume control/pre-amp stages - would the addition of a Ref 5 SE or Ref 3 add much in this case, versus going direct to the amps? Has anyone that has made this comparison offer their opinions?

2. How does the Ref 3 compare to the Ref 5 SE, has anyone compared them side by side? What are the general differences in sound quality?

Thanks in advance,

- Gareth

What amps are you using with the newly ordered Salon 2s? They do require a lot of high quality watts!

[Ricardo Nonato]

Chewie,

If you don't have money for REF5 SE, I suggest you can go in LS27. That's what I did, and now I'm going to REF5 SE. In my opinion, the LS27 is superior to REF3.


Nice regards,
Ricardo Nonato.

[MPS]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Nonato

Chewie,

If you don't have money for REF5 SE, I suggest you can go in LS27. That's what I did, and now I'm going to REF5 SE. In my opinion, the LS27 is superior to REF3.


Nice regards,
Ricardo Nonato.

Hi, I find that statement surprising and interesting at the same time. Owning a REF3 I thought the only way to go would have been REF5 (SE). It would be nice to hear your experience of how LS27 is different from REF3.

[Chewie]

To all,

As I am new, my posts are being checked by moderators before they appear on the thread, so my apologies if my responses are delayed, or seem a little out of sync.

Originally Posted by Ritmo

What amps are you using with the newly ordered Salon 2s? They do require a lot of high quality watts!

Hi Ritmo,

As money is a little tight at the minute I have gone for a pair of second hand Jeff Rowland Model 6 monoblocs's with the battery power supplies.

I appreciate that they are not high power amps as such (150W into 8ohms, and 250W into 4ohms) but are high current giving 35 amps continuous and 50 amps peak output current.

They are also getting on a bit now at 12 years old, but I've always wanted to try the Jeff Rowland amps, so this is my chance to have go with them on a temporary basis, and relatively little outlay (considering they originally cost about £25k (UK sterling) new).

I will be comparing them to a couple of loaner amps - Mark Levinson 532H and Aragon Iridium monoblocs, and also the the AB Systems 11000SE monoblocs that I use in my HT (1000W into 8ohms).

- Gareth

[Chewie]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Nonato

Chewie,

If you don't have money for REF5 SE, I suggest you can go in LS27. That's what I did, and now I'm going to REF5 SE. In my opinion, the LS27 is superior to REF3.


Nice regards,
Ricardo Nonato.

Originally Posted by MPS

Hi, I find that statement surprising and interesting at the same time. Owning a REF3 I thought the only way to go would have been REF5 (SE). It would be nice to hear your experience of how LS27 is different from REF3.

I have read the same comment made that the LS27 outperforms the Ref 3. I believe this is in fact a statement made openly and directly by Audio Research themselves!

So indeed Ricardo, I will be taking a look at the LS27 if I can't quite reach for the Ref 5SE.

[Alki]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Nonato

Chewie,

If you don't have money for REF5 SE, I suggest you can go in LS27. That's what I did, and now I'm going to REF5 SE. In my opinion, the LS27 is superior to REF3.

Nice regards,
Ricardo Nonato.

Prior to purchasing my LS27 I looked long and hard at a used REF3. Although in the end I came to a similar conclusion the LS27 was the way to go but it was certainly not clear cut.

There were some aspects of the REF3 that I thought were better than the LS27 such as the sound stage. There were some aspects if the LS27 that I thought were superior such as the "quickness". In the end there were also two intangibles that factored into my decision.

The first was that the LS27 was new and had a warranty. The second was that when I upgrade the LS27 in a few years it may still be a current model or one model old and should be real easy to sell.

IMHO the best bang for for the $$$ in the ARC lineup is the LS27. That being said I have also heard the REF5 and REF40, and they are superior in every way but also more costly.

The real dilemma is that if you do look at a REF5SE why not consider a used REF40 for a few thousand more. This is the angle the I would consider if I was to upgrade in the very neat future.

[MPS]

Thank you for your comments. I have no chance to compare all or any of these equipment side by side in the same system, therefore I have only speculated.
"On the paper" REF5 looks like simplified layout of REF3 with slightly increased power supply capacitance. REF5SE looks like REF5 with considerably increased power supply capacitance and state of art quality Teflon output capacitors. All models (REF3, REF5, REF5SE) share the same circuit topology in power supply section as well as actual amplifying stage.
LS27 is almost totally different in each circuit stage, being simplified and less overbuild. This of course doesn't mean it should sound anything less than others, sometimes less is more and KISS principle can be effectively applied in audio.
Anniversary model is so alike to REF3-REF5SE line, just double everything in double mono construction.
From this point of view it's surprising to hear how the slightly different REF5 is so much more advanced from REF3. REF5SE seems to differ more to REF5 so is there even greater advancement? Anniversary with all it's complexity and cost no object build is obvious for top of the line whereas LS27 being a different breed is hard to locate in the line up.
All this to say, need for ears required

[Chewie]

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

I believe there is one for sale here on AA right now at a very attractive price. Timing is everything.

I must be being a bit 'slow', though my excuse is that I'm new around here - so where exactly are the classifieds on this forum?

Also, to others on this thread, I notice a few of you have Revel Salon 2's - how come there is no Revel manufacturers section?

[Ritmo]

Originally Posted by Alki

Prior to purchasing my LS27 I looked long and hard at a used REF3. Although in the end I came to a similar conclusion the LS27 was the way to go but it was certainly not clear cut.

There were some aspects of the REF3 that I thought were better than the LS27 such as the sound stage. There were some aspects if the LS27 that I thought were superior such as the "quickness". In the end there were also two intangibles that factored into my decision.

The first was that the LS27 was new and had a warranty. The second was that when I upgrade the LS27 in a few years it may still be a current model or one model old and should be real easy to sell.

IMHO the best bang for for the $$$ in the ARC lineup is the LS27. That being said I have also heard the REF5 and REF40, and they are superior in every way but also more costly.

The real dilemma is that if you do look at a REF5SE why not consider a used REF40 for a few thousand more. This is the angle the I would consider if I was to upgrade in the very neat future.

The LS27 is a very nice unit. I had one before acquiring the Ref5SE.

The Ref5SE is clearly superior to the LS27. It is a significant step up.

[Chewie]

Originally Posted by Ritmo

The LS27 is a very nice unit. I had one before acquiring the Ref5SE.

The Ref5SE is clearly superior to the LS27. It is a significant step up.

In what ways does it improve on the LS27?