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  #41  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:20 PM
Bob Bubeck Bob Bubeck is offline
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Are you saying the DAC is easily removable from the preamplifier by the consumer for repairs/upgrading? Or does the whole unit need to be sent out when something goes on the fritz?
No. I was not addressing the ability to physically remove and/or repair a DAC board. That is another matter. It would appear, however, that McIntosh (and some other manufacturers) is starting to move in that direction.

Respectfully.
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:18 AM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is offline
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I suspect the preference for outboard DACs has little to do with intrinsic sound quality but more to with ease of servicing, flexibility and upgradibility from not having two units combined in a single deck.
Not from this external DAC preferrer. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but most would say (have said) that DACs are not McIntosh's sweet spot, and that much better sound is available for the same or lower dollars.

I understand why some might not care about the dollars of a second DAC or others might sacrifice sound quality for fewer boxes (but of course they probably want a single integrated unit), but intrinsic sound quality is typically better with a non McDAC.

As with all of these choices, it is best to close eyes, open ears (and wallet, haha), then take home whatever brings the biggest smile.
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:34 AM
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62caddy 62caddy is offline
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... and that much better sound is available for the same or lower dollars.

... intrinsic sound quality is typically better with a non McDAC.
If that's the case, that's all the more reason in addition to the concerns I mentioned.

I never owned a DAC (and still unsure of what they even do - being the anachrophile that I am ) but my instincts have been to err on the side of separates for the reasons I've cited.
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  #44  
Old 01-19-2019, 02:11 PM
Bob Bubeck Bob Bubeck is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterMusic View Post
Not from this external DAC preferrer. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but most would say (have said) that DACs are not McIntosh's sweet spot, and that much better sound is available for the same or lower dollars.

I understand why some might not care about the dollars of a second DAC or others might sacrifice sound quality for fewer boxes (but of course they probably want a single integrated unit), but intrinsic sound quality is typically better with a non McDAC.

As with all of these choices, it is best to close eyes, open ears (and wallet, haha), then take home whatever brings the biggest smile.
Well, might this not be painting with a rather broad brush? Personal experience has led me to believe that different DACs sound better/less good (to me with my system, anyway) with different recordings. It is handy to have a second DAC readily available for selection and comparison at the push of a button. The additional cost incurred by the addition of a DAC in a McIntosh control preamp is roughly the cost of a pair of moderately decent interconnects, so the expenditure is almost a secondary issue. In the meantime, an internal DAC included as a convenience in a McIntosh preamp does not affect the sound of the basic preamp itself.

I do heartily agree with you that the individual should rely on his/her own ears and desires regarding equipment selection. Happy listening!

Respectfully,

Bob
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2019, 03:00 PM
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62caddy 62caddy is offline
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I think it's highly unlikely the presence of DAC circuitry in a preamplifier or integrated amplifier degrades sound quality.

My primary concerns would only be issues related to flexibility and serviceability.

I know I have found it extremely difficult to impossible to detect any significant nuances between various McIntosh amplifiers and I would think the same applies to any decent quality DACs. As always, YMMV.
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  #46  
Old 01-19-2019, 04:00 PM
Msegal Msegal is offline
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I find it interesting that so many people are quick to proclaim that an internal DAC does not degrade sound quality. I do not have two identical preamps to make that comparison but I would prefer to keep those noisy digital switching circuits out of my preamp.
I see McIntosh does not put a DAC in the C1100.

Respectfully.

Mike S.


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  #47  
Old 01-19-2019, 08:22 PM
Bob Bubeck Bob Bubeck is offline
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Originally Posted by Msegal View Post
I find it interesting that so many people are quick to proclaim that an internal DAC does not degrade sound quality. I do not have two identical preamps to make that comparison but I would prefer to keep those noisy digital switching circuits out of my preamp.
I see McIntosh does not put a DAC in the C1100.

Respectfully.

Mike S.
Well, a C1100 is a cutting edge high buck purest preamp which has no tone controls for that matter. A more relevant comparison would be, say, between the C2300 and the C2500, which are both full featured control preamplifieres (Please note that I have been using the term control in italics). Both were highly and widely reviewed and no diminution in sonic quality was generally noted in the reviews for the C2500 compared to the C2300. An updated comparison would be between the new C70 and the C2600. Does one really believe that the sonic differences between the two is going to be all that significant? (I'll wager that one could obtain larger sonic differences by tube rolling and that the C52 sounds more different from the C2600 than does the C70.) And, so forth. Choose what does it for you and enjoy.

Respectfully.

Bob
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:21 PM
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62caddy 62caddy is offline
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I find it interesting that so many people are quick to proclaim that an internal DAC does not degrade sound quality. I do not have two identical preamps to make that comparison but I would prefer to keep those noisy digital switching circuits out of my preamp.
McIntosh (and other manufacturers) have been combining sub-sections on the same chassis for decades without any ill effect and if it did, it would certainly show up in test measurements.

Levels of S/N and THD are well below the human threshold of hearing in most modern equipment nowadays and if there's any evidence of on board DACs being deleterious to sound quality, I have yet to see any objective evidence of it.

Last edited by 62caddy; 01-20-2019 at 03:29 PM.
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