JV's take on Ref5SE/Ref250 combo vs. CJ GAT/ART combo...

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thanks again Cyril. The new ARC gear does look amazing, I am sure it sounds the same way. While I am gravitating back towards the GAT, I really want to explore the Dart NHB-18NS preamp with my Dart amp. The Dart amp is, so far, the only amp I really enjoy on the TAD CR-1's wholeheartedly.

Sorry to go OT on this thread. I appreciate the help.

Joe,
If I were to guess, I would bet that you won't l like the Dart NHB-18NS pre used with your Dart NHB-108 as much as you did the GAT. I think it will be a case of too much of a good thing....

There was a someone who owned both that preamp and your amp who posted something along those very lines here a while back...

That's just a guess on my part, though.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Joe,
If I were to guess, I would bet that you won't l like the Dart NHB-18NS pre used with your Dart NHB-108 as much as you did the GAT. I think it will be a case of too much of a good thing....

There was a someone who owned both that preamp and your amp who posted something along those very lines here a while back...

That's just a guess on my part, though.

Thanks Stephen. I've read posts on both sides of the fence and contacted owners seeking their opinion. My sense is the dartzeel combo hooked up via the 50 ohm bnc/zeel connection is in a different class. No doubt the GAT/Dart combo was indeed very special. I think based on me having TADs and what I hear/like, the dartzeel combo should do it for me as well. It will be near impossible to try a dartzeel preamp before I buy.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thanks Stephen. I've read posts on both sides of the fence and contacted owners seeking their opinion. My sense is the dartzeel combo hooked up via the 50 ohm bnc/zeel connection is in a different class. No doubt the GAT/Dart combo was indeed very special. I think based on me having TADs and what I hear/like, the dartzeel combo should do it for me as well. It will be near impossible to try a dartzeel preamp before I buy.

Dang. It'd be ideal to test a GAT and NHB-18S at the same time...just like JV should have done before proclaiming that ARC is the marque to beat when it comes to tube amplification.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Cyrll,
Thanks for posting this and for directing me to JV's reply on the TAS site.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how he can compare the two effectively without simultaneous side by side comparisons and only from memory. Regardless, he's long been a fan of ARC, and it could be because he gets to keep their and Magico's gear "on loan" longer than other mfrs. Reminds me of the MC 2301s that HP's had on review loan for over a year and a half now. I"ve heard that he actually doesn't own any or much of the gear that comprises his "reference system" and that his listening room is quite small...who knows?

Regardless, it reminds me in a way of sport motorcycle reviews....what was hot last year has been superceded by what's hot this year. And so now last year's superb motorcycle is somehow less superb....

Stephen...it's one man's opinion plus if you read what he says he actually places them both essentially at an equal footing and he could live happilly with
either combo. I think you are reading too much into his "slight" preference for ARC. Plus his opinion is just that. More important is his descrription of what he heard through each combo (and you are right a side-by-side comparison would were it possible would have been the right way to compare the two), and it seems like CJ is taking on some traditional ARC strengths and vice versa. At least that is my take on it. Hope all is well

[jpspock]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thanks Cyril. Interesting comparison. I don't know if I'd like the ARC gear being "forward". For my taste and speakers, forward would be too much. I guess I'd have to listen for myself. I do like the fact that ARC is balanced. I wonder how the REF 5SE would play on the 911's and XA100.5's? Thoughts?

REF5 + Pass Xa100.5 : very, very great combo. At home since one year. I hope it will be possible upgrade soon gain

[Ritmo]

Cyril - Thanks for posting.

All - Nice exchange of comments and thoughts. Like it!

Mike

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by jpspock

REF5 + Pass Xa100.5 : very, very great combo. At home since one year. I hope it will be possible upgrade soon gain

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[tunes]

Originally Posted by jpspock

REF5 + Pass Xa100.5 : very, very great combo. At home since one year. I hope it will be possible upgrade soon gain

+1
I have tried this combo as well and it is excellent synergy. That said, have not heard 911s or Darts.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by tima

I agree but still hear the yin and the yang locked in battle for your audiophile soul.

Imo, the "convergence" has been happening since mid-frst-decade of the new century. For ARC it began with the Ref 3 and Ref 110, for CJ it was the ACT II and Premier 140.

By coincidence (I don't think its the only marker for sonic similarity), both companies adopted the Russian 6H30 for use in each of those products. CJ moved a bit too quick for its long time audience and pulled back to the 6DJ8 family in their preamps. ARC began (and continues) losing the aluminized forwardness that long characterized many of their 20th C products (for example, amps in the VT100 lineage.) Both have adopted the KT120.

Today CJ is a bit less warm and ARC a bit less cool - that means lower distortion for each in its own way. While they've taken on some shared strengths and largely avoided sharing weaknesses, they're still silver and gold with each company maintaining a unique house sound.

I'm glad the differences exist.

tima...thx for your perspective. It's interesting that JV seemed to think that the Ref 5SE/Ref250 combo was a bit darker and more tonally rich/dense than the CJ GAT/ART which would suggest that with the most recent iteration of their product lines they might have switched on that front. One man's ears and opinion and like Stephen pointed out he did not have the benefit of a side-by-side comparison but have you had a chance to compare the two side-by-side? Any thoughts on this specifically? Thx

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Stephen...it's one man's opinion plus if you read what he says he actually places them both essentially at an equal footing and he could live happilly with
either combo. I think you are reading too much into his "slight" preference for ARC. Plus his opinion is just that. More important is his descrription of what he heard through each combo (and you are right a side-by-side comparison would were it possible would have been the right way to compare the two), and it seems like CJ is taking on some traditional ARC strengths and vice versa. At least that is my take on it. Hope all is well

Cyril,
Great points and I agree with your perspective. I guess I just take exception to his statement that ARC is the marque to beat when it comes to tube preamps and amps...especially based on the glowing reviews the C-J ART/GAT combo received, which you remember and also asked JV about, and the fact that there are other tube manufacturers, e.g. Octave, that are doing terrific and innovative things that JV has never reviewed. One of the issues I have with TAS is they tend to review products from the same fairly small set of companies over and over again, rather than being broader in scope.

When's the last time you saw Octave gear reviewed in TAS? Or for that matter, Dynaudio?

It always seems to be Magico, Wilson, ARC, BAlabo, Wilson, Magico, Clearaudio, Soulution, Magico, PSB, and Wilson.