MSB Analog DAC

[Priaptor]

Originally Posted by Still-One

After spending some time this afternoon with the Meridian back in the system and thinking back to what I heard earlier today at the the store. I would say that the Meridian is closer to the Signature DAC and Diamond Power Supply and Galaxy clock than it is to the Analog DAC. The Analog DAC and Signature DAC without the upgraded clock are smoother and less resolving than the Galaxy clock or Meridian units. That less resolving sound makes the Analog DAC and Signature DAC sound smoother and maybe a bit easier on the ears than the other units.

Without a quality pre-amp that will allow me to quickly switch between two DACS playing the same source it is hard for audio my memory to truly compare two sources.

No offense but comparing what you heard in "the store" and from memory (aka "thinking back") compared to your home is kind of meaningless.

But hey the Meridian is an excellent DAC so enjoy.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by bplexico

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on the Analog DAC and other members of the MSB line. I will shortly be making a purchase, and one thing I am curious about is what types of music you did your evaluations with, both in terms of music formats (Redbook, high res, DSD) and musical genres and artists.

I would love to hear more about the kinds of tunes you use to evaluate these systems.

Thanks in advance.

Barr

Barr
Here are just a few of the artists/tracks I used to compare the DAC's. In general what you won't find is any Rap, Jazz, or artists like Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Sade, etc.

Chris Jones - No Sanctuary Here
Tom Jones - Tower of Song
Brandi Carlile - That Wasn't Me & Raise Hell
Fiona Joy Hawkins - Contemplating
Garrick Ohlsson- Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No 3 III. Finale-Alla Breve
Trac Adkins - I Can't Outrun You
Gary Girouard - Opus & Black Goose
Richard Hawley - just about any if his music
2 Cellos - Benedictus
Holly Cole - Train Song
John Hinson - Thursday Empire
Alison Krauss & Union Station - Live
Mark Knopfler & EmmyLou Harris - All the Roadrunning
Dire Straits - Private Investigations Greatest Hits

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by Priaptor

No offense but comparing what you heard in "the store" and from memory (aka "thinking back") compared to your home is kind of meaningless.

But hey the Meridian is an excellent DAC so enjoy.

I don't disagree. It is always going to sound better in my system than in a audio store especially with unfamiliar gear.

Also remember, the upgrade to my unit to v5 will cost me less than $6k.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by Priaptor

No offense but comparing what you heard in "the store" and from memory (aka "thinking back") compared to your home is kind of meaningless.

But hey the Meridian is an excellent DAC so enjoy.

There is one other point to consider. When I compared the two dacs in my system I was using the same RCA digital input for both units on the Meridian. That is not the way that I normally listen to music on the Meridian. The MC-200 is normally connected via the RJ45 ethernet which is the preferred method for connecting MDMS products according to Meridian. This is how I am again listening.

[Priaptor]

Originally Posted by Still-One

There is one other point to consider. When I compared the two dacs in my system I was using the same RCA digital input for both units on the Meridian. That is not the way that I normally listen to music on the Meridian. The MC-200 is normally connected via the RJ45 ethernet which is the preferred method for connecting MDMS products according to Meridian. This is how I am again listening.

Jim,

There are always many factors one has to consider when comparing products and I understand this. When I got the MSB products for DEMO, they were insistent that I listen through their transport, which I never do any longer. But as a frame of reference to make Vince of MSB happy I did indeed listen through the transport.

First, I do use a preamp, in my case I REF10. I have yet to find a VC that matches a good preamp, particularly one like the REF 10.

So in my "double blinded" psuedo-scientific review process, I first listened to the Analog direct into my then Constellation Centaur driving my Magico Q1s. This is the system I used to "initially compare" the Analog and later the Diamond.

I tried the Analog both with the VC direct to amp and after through my preamp with the VC set to 100. For me there was no comparison, the Preamp killed it, to the dismay of MBS. Since the Meitner EMMDAC2x has no VC, once I established the VC on both the Analog and Diamond were inferior to my Preamp, I began my comparisons.

I was pretty startled at how musical the Analog was on first listen. It was incredibly three dimensional in the most pleasing of ways, not artificially bloated, timbre as accurate as I have ever heard and strings and vocals to die for. Lower octaves were much better defined with spatial cues I have never heard from digital. There was NO sacrificing PCM for DSD and vice versa as some find with the Playback Designs and other such DACs. I was quite shocked at how, the Meitner which I loved, was more like a scientific analytic tool, whereas the MSB was more musical.

I then of course tried the Diamond and it was, for me at least, a game changer. As I said before, it was a 5 minute moment for me to get a grasp on just how amazing the product was. Vince from MSB, who had no intention of me buying the Diamond as I was looking to "only" try the Analog for a different system, was told, he was not getting back the unit for a few weeks.

My next trek took me to eliminating the transport, using my homemade server in its place. MSB hates these as they cannot control the input stream and feel most people are not getting the true capabilities of their equipment as such. I am a tweaker of these things and where possible, get as good sound as possible from my CAPS derivative. I have many friends more savvy than me who have helped.

The main issue were the crappy drivers MSB included with my demo, which I was assured would be fixed (still waiting although the current iteration is better). Using the older SOTM card I literally had to try more iterations of install than I care to list. However I finally got it working with my CAPS 2 variant and was duly impressed and after making some tweaks, felt the sonics were on par with their transport. At the same time I put together my CAPS 3 Carbon variant, with the new SOTM USB card, using RED WINE's Black Lightning Battery Power Supply, with separate power to the USB card and MOBO with JRIVER, tried on both Kernel and WASAPI-EVENT, the former besting the latter. I can say digital nirvana had arrived and despite protests from Vince to the contrary, there was no comparison between his transport and my server, at least IMO. I had several people who have systems equal to mine come over for a listen. All were awe struck.

Now the best part for last. I sent back the Analog, fully convinced the Diamond was on a different level, still listening on the Constellation Centaur Magico Q1 REF 10 system (cabled up beyond absurdity) and decided to now, listen to both change over to my reference system to compare the Meitner and Demo Diamond. My ref system consists of Nola Baby Grand Series II, REF 250s, REF10. The difference between the two system, my reference system I hadn't listen to in a month during my trial of the MSB, was so huge, I chose to sell my second system I was considering for my second home (which is where this all began). I couldn't go back to my SS Constellation/Q1, no comparison. Same people came over as I told them YOU MUST hear this. They were all similarly amazed and couldn't believe how much more musical this system was compared to the Constellation/Magico.

The Constellation (an excellent SS amp on a level with the Momentum) and the Magico Q1 (who I have heard some say is "THE BEST SPEAKER TODAY" although I strongly disagree with that) are now gone. They weren't my cup of tea. I have also been a long time owner of Wilson Watt/Puppy and then the X1s and their variants, which no longer grace my home. Again, not my cup of tea ultimately, although I understand why so many love them.

Lastly, JPlay has now entered my system which is another level still.

I think there are many variables one has to take into consideration when comparing products, is not a simple plug in one and plug in the other and see which "sounds better", particularly as it pertains to digital. I have been on this quest for close to two years now, have tried many products, some I really liked, some were OK but believe I have reached an OMG moment with my current system.

[Apexorca]

My experience is that the big important step is into the MSB family. Even "just" the Analog DAC can beat several times more expensive digital source, due to my testing.
I started with The Analog DAC with the upgraded powersupply and the signature cd transport. When you are there, all upgrades makes it better and more expensive.
I tried a lot of combinations and ended up with Diamond DAC IV plus, Signature CD transport and Diamond power supply. For me, it was the best cost benefit combination.
It´s also posible to upgrade. The Analog Dac is not. That´s quit important for me.
The Analog Dac is not fully balanced with two DAC cips and starting with Diamond DAC there are 4 DAC chips.

[bzr]

& the femto galaxy clock takes it to another level again....

[junker]

Originally Posted by Apexorca

I tried a lot of combinations and ended up with Diamond DAC IV plus, Signature CD transport and Diamond power supply. For me, it was the best cost benefit combination. It´s also posible to upgrade.

The Analog Dac is not. That´s quit important for me. The Analog Dac is not fully balanced with two DAC cips and starting with Diamond DAC there are 4 DAC chips.

Originally Posted by bzr

& the femto galaxy clock takes it to another level again....

Yes, true there are more options and upgradability with the DAC IV, but things can easily get out of control unless you have a LOT is disposable income.

Benefit, yes definitely. Cost-benefit... not sure I agree with you there. I'm thinking that award is going to have to go the the Analog DAC.

MSB Product Configuration

Diamond DAC IV plus = $27995
Color is Satin Black with Blue Heatsinks $0
Add Diamond Stepped Attenuator $2995
Add USB2 Signature 384 Input $1395
Add RCA Analog Input $995
Add Diamond Power Base $5995
Add FemtoSecond Galaxy Clock $4955

Final Cost is $44330

[enzo66]

Regarding the upgrades of diamond dac IV, I think that shall be applicable a saying used where I live: "once at 30, you can do 31" even if expensive (I add). I think that MSB's marketing strategy is very functional because the products are wonderful.
Ciao, Enzo

[ALFA]

I have Analog DAC with Analog power base and UMT v with dual signature power base.
MSB supplied the I2S cable.
does anybody know how to differentiate their best I2S cable from earlier offerings.

Purist Audio has cat 7 Ethernet cable.
Has anybody compared this cable to the MSB I2S cable.
I believe Cat 7 is shielded and I saw an article by MSB prescribing non shielded Ethernet cable.