I feel restless :(

[Sonic Guild]

Originally Posted by Glisse

Sonic Guild,

It seems you are not in a good place

I have read many of your previous posts, which were in the main Olympica III thread. From what I can tell:

• You live in an area where you can't hear any of the speakers you were interested in buying, so you have relied on reviews/forum opinions/advice of friends.
• You have little experience of two channel stereo systems, as in the past you have been a headphone user.
• You decided on Olympica II, but as soon as you bought these, you seem to have found a very good offer on Olympica III, and now have those instead.
• You have been asking questions on what amplifier to use on the Olympica III, but don't seem to have bought one yet.
• Ever since you have bought the Olympica III, you are questioning whether they are "good enough".

It really is playing the lottery to try and assemble a system in this manner, unless you are happy to buy and then sell to try something else.

There is a fundamental difference between a headphone system and a speaker system. In a speaker system, the most significant influence on the sound is the relationship between the speaker and the room it is in. Two people in the other thread suggested to you that you may not have optimised the Olympica III's position in the room.

You didn't pay much attention to that, but you should have.

Even movements as small as 2cm can have a profound influence on the performance. Position from side wall and rear walls, listening position relative to ceiling reflections, toe in and tilt will all have significant effects. I get the impression that you are not aware of these considerations, which is completely understandable for a headphone user.

I have both Amati Futura and Guarneri Evolution. The first is in a ~50m2 room, the second in a 25m2 room, both with tall 3.5m ceiling heights. The Amati sounds bloated and slower in the small room, the Guarneri sounds smaller and thinner in the large room, comparative to each other. Even so, in their "optimum" rooms, I get better bass definition from the Guarneri, as I have bass nodes in the large room that I cannot easily fix.

But if I was forced to keep only one, I would keep the Guarneri because it offers more flexibility with positioning in different sized rooms to get closer to its maximum potential.

The Olympica III is a relatively large speaker, with a strong bass output. It will possibly overpower a smaller listening room - this can result in a loss of transparency / air / separation, which is what seems to be concerning you.

If you search in the SF forum, you will find many excellent posts about achieving optimum speaker placement in the room, and look in particular for posts by Metaphacts.

Due to its driver array, the Olympica III needs an amplifier capable of delivering plenty of current, and to also be sufficiently transparent to get the most out the Olympica. I know a number of people said they have heard good results with tube amps, but I would not risk this myself unless I could hear it in my own room first.

I was interested reading your second post here about comparative strengths/weaknesses of Stax/Sennheiser/Audeze headphones with your amp/DAC components. It sounds like you are very sensitive to any hardness in the upper midrange / lower treble area. Whilst peripheral to your current Olympica issue, you should try and listen to an R2R/ladder DAC if the opportunity arises.

Before swapping/trading/selling the Olympica III for yet another speaker, which you may or may not prefer, I would first try to get the most out of them. You do not have any local dealer who carries a quality range of amplifiers and DACs?

Thank you so much!

How can I determine the proper room size?
My room is 7m L x 5.9 W x 3M H
I think this is a fairly good size for the OIII, what do u think?

What makes the R2R/ladder DAC special to you?

[Sonic Guild]

Originally Posted by antipop

There is not much to add. To really help you, we need to know more about the rest of the system, the cables used, the room and placement of the speakers,...

I've had an horrible experience with a pair of Venere until I swap the cables. They had an insane impact on the sound. So knowing the rest of the system is important too.

When you're willing to spend 10k+ on speakers and certainly 20k+ on the whole system, it is reasonable to spend a little money on travel and going to listen and compare different system to find which suits you best.

I've done some blind purchase but never for speakers and amps.

Last but not least, the speakers you mention are not in the same price range as the OIII. You get different products at different price ranges and in this hobby you always have better, bigger and more expensive but you should know where to draw the line.

No cables yet, so you may tell me more about your experience with cables. I am thinking of pure copper cables that give analog sound, compared to silver which tend to be harsh.

I managed to listen to the Olympica before purchasing it. I love it!
Let me explain my problem here and I really hope that all of you can help me. When I read that SF built the Olympica with ONE clear goal which is naturality, I feel good and safe. In addition, I trust there experience in building speakers. My issue is as follows:

Formula A:
Speaker X (supposed to be natural according to manufacturer and reviews) = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music.

Formula B:
Speaker Y (which is double the price and from the same manufacturer as speaker X) is a better speaker compared to X = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music.

So how come X is able to replicate the original music (according to the manufacture) AND at the same time speaker Y is better? I am talking about the same gear and same room. Logically, there must be no difference in sound signature and musical experience if both are aiming to replicate the EXACT music. The ONLY difference is the look, design and finish.

This is what makes me wondering all the time


I know that my questions might sound naive to you guys

[audiot servant]

Originally Posted by Sonic Guild

No cables yet, so you may tell me more about your experience with cables. I am thinking of pure copper cables that give analog sound, compared to silver which tend to be harsh. I managed to listen to the Olympica before purchasing it. I love it! Let me explain my problem here and I really hope that all of you can help me. When I read that SF built the Olympica with ONE clear goal which is naturality, I feel good and safe. In addition, I trust there experience in building speakers. My issue is as follows: Formula A: Speaker X (supposed to be natural according to manufacturer and reviews) = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music. Formula B: Speaker Y (which is double the price and from the same manufacturer as speaker X) is a better speaker compared to X = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music. So how come X is able to replicate the original music (according to the manufacture) AND at the same time speaker Y is better? I am talking about the same gear and same room. Logically, there must be no difference in sound signature and musical experience if both are aiming to replicate the EXACT music. The ONLY difference is the look, design and finish. This is what makes me wondering all the time I know that my questions might sound naive to you guys

Sonic G,
If you heard the Olympicas and loved them then you at least have a starting point to build from.

I'd suggest that you go back to the original system and check out what amp they matched to the SF and also use that as an opportunity to reconfirm you still love Olympica sound. Also ask for tips on general speaker positioning for this type of speaker.

Falling for a speaker after a short audition is a bit like being attracted to someone across a room at first sight, it's exciting sure but they don't always necessarily end up good marriage material.

You've bought the Olympicas so probably good to give them the best chance so try and get some advice about your room/speaker interface and speaker/amp interface as these are critical. If you have someone in your area that is good with set-up invite them around and get their advice.

If you ultimately decide the SF isn't the speaker for you then Harri's suggestion about Magnepan is a great one. I have LCD2 with violectric ha and the Maggie's have much the same vibe only much, much better again. The 3.7s with subs would be my advice for an audition shortlist if you don't end up settling down with the Olympicas.

graham

[harri009]

Originally Posted by audiot servant

Sonic G, If you heard the Olympicas and loved them then you at least have a starting point to build from. I'd suggest that you go back to the original system and check out what amp they matched to the SF and also use that as an opportunity to reconfirm you still love Olympica sound. Also ask for tips on general speaker positioning for this type of speaker. Falling for a speaker after a short audition is a bit like being attracted to someone across a room at first sight, it's exciting sure but they don't always necessarily end up good marriage material. You've bought the Olympicas so probably good to give them the best chance so try and get some advice about your room/speaker interface and speaker/amp interface as these are critical. If you have someone in your area that is good with set-up invite them around and get their advice. If you ultimately decide the SF isn't the speaker for you then Harri's suggestion about Magnepan is a great one. I have LCD2 with violectric ha and the Maggie's have much the same vibe only much, much better again. The 3.7s with subs would be my advice for an audition shortlist if you don't end up settling down with the Olympicas. graham

Yes indeed, if you did in fact have a chance to audition these and found them wonderful during your audition I would 2nd Graham's suggestion and find out what gear they are running. If it's local you could even possibly take your own integrated, cables, etc to try and track down what's making the difference for you.

[755a]

Has the OP mentioned anything more then the speakers and his headfi gear?

What is the rest of your system? Speakers are the end of the chain. Everything in front matters.

[antipop]

Originally Posted by Sonic Guild

No cables yet, so you may tell me more about your experience with cables. I am thinking of pure copper cables that give analog sound, compared to silver which tend to be harsh.

I managed to listen to the Olympica before purchasing it. I love it!
Let me explain my problem here and I really hope that all of you can help me. When I read that SF built the Olympica with ONE clear goal which is naturality, I feel good and safe. In addition, I trust there experience in building speakers. My issue is as follows:

Formula A:
Speaker X (supposed to be natural according to manufacturer and reviews) = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music.

Formula B:
Speaker Y (which is double the price and from the same manufacturer as speaker X) is a better speaker compared to X = precise and honest sound signature that is %100 capable to replicate the original music.

So how come X is able to replicate the original music (according to the manufacture) AND at the same time speaker Y is better? I am talking about the same gear and same room. Logically, there must be no difference in sound signature and musical experience if both are aiming to replicate the EXACT music. The ONLY difference is the look, design and finish.

This is what makes me wondering all the time


I know that my questions might sound naive to you guys

First, regarding cables, my brother bought a pair of Venere and the dealer loaned him a pair of Audioquest (roughly a few 100$ cables). When we first installed the system, it was just flat, lifeless and just plain boring. This was different than what we heard at the dealer.

After going through a few albums, I said that we try my old homemade cables and boom the speakers just revealed themselves. We were good to go and enjoy the music. My advice is to get quality cables, you can play with copper v silver but start with a good base. I highly recommend Wireworld products.

On the other part of your question, don't get fooled by marketing. Of course every speaker is the best and gets all the adjective you're looking for. You wouldn't buy one if the ad says we are somewhat precise with some lack of soundstage. Reviews compare speakers in the same price range so you end up with the best in the given price range. The Aida is not just a better looking and more expensive OIII.

Speakers are widely different from one to the next and there is no exact reproduction of music. This is a myth as each component alters the signal in some way (starting with the mix upstream). You should look for the reproduction that suits you best. Some like precision, other warmth, other a sweet midrange,...

If you look back at my thread when I bought my Elipsa, you'll see that I've listened to the Cremona first. However the Elipsa was taking everything to the next level that I ended up with them despite going widely over budget. Listening to Jean-Marc's Alexia I could hear the difference and what were the limits of the Elipsa. Listening to Ivan's Aida just showed me where you could go when you remove all the stops. Do I wish to own a system like this ? Sure, I hope so someday. Am I unhappy with my own ? Hell, no!

You should listen to other systems at different price point. You'll learn how good is your system and what could be improved. You can also learn about small things that can make a difference, like proper setup for the speaker, the way they interact with the room,...

You're just at the beginning of the rabbit hole and it's a long journey. This is your first system so enjoy it and learn. It is more gratifying to start small and move up.

[larevoj]

I think there are many good point raised in this thread. A headphone set up is quite different from a stereo or even a home theater setup.

The right speaker for the right environment is very important and it's not amount of dollars you are willing to throw at it. Yes, in general a more expensive speakers usually performs better versus an entry level speakers. However, at the top tier price point different speakers performs quite differently with its environment, electronic used, the cables applied, etc. The same can be said for mid or even entry category.

It's especially difficult if you don't have a chance to audition a proper setup. Perhaps you can do home visits to get a clue on various setups or visit trade shows. The same pair of speakers can sound very different in a different environment and setup. All speakers have its inherent character and it's a lie when it's absolutely neutral or flat - heard of that? Certain tones and characteristics cannot be measured at all...the parameters that can be measured only give you a tell tale sign or 10% of what the speakers can or cannot do. The rest of 90% is in your own ears and not reviews or even reading my cheap comments here.

So have fun and enjoy the music!

[Sonic Guild]

I discovered a SWEET spot for the OIII.
Try to make the two axises crossed just behind your head, you will thank later

[Sonic Guild]

Originally Posted by antipop

First, regarding cables, my brother bought a pair of Venere and the dealer loaned him a pair of Audioquest (roughly a few 100$ cables). When we first installed the system, it was just flat, lifeless and just plain boring. This was different than what we heard at the dealer.

After going through a few albums, I said that we try my old homemade cables and boom the speakers just revealed themselves. We were good to go and enjoy the music. My advice is to get quality cables, you can play with copper v silver but start with a good base. I highly recommend Wireworld products.

On the other part of your question, don't get fooled by marketing. Of course every speaker is the best and gets all the adjective you're looking for. You wouldn't buy one if the ad says we are somewhat precise with some lack of soundstage. Reviews compare speakers in the same price range so you end up with the best in the given price range. The Aida is not just a better looking and more expensive OIII.

Speakers are widely different from one to the next and there is no exact reproduction of music. This is a myth as each component alters the signal in some way (starting with the mix upstream). You should look for the reproduction that suits you best. Some like precision, other warmth, other a sweet midrange,...

If you look back at my thread when I bought my Elipsa, you'll see that I've listened to the Cremona first. However the Elipsa was taking everything to the next level that I ended up with them despite going widely over budget. Listening to Jean-Marc's Alexia I could hear the difference and what were the limits of the Elipsa. Listening to Ivan's Aida just showed me where you could go when you remove all the stops. Do I wish to own a system like this ? Sure, I hope so someday. Am I unhappy with my own ? Hell, no!

You should listen to other systems at different price point. You'll learn how good is your system and what could be improved. You can also learn about small things that can make a difference, like proper setup for the speaker, the way they interact with the room,...

You're just at the beginning of the rabbit hole and it's a long journey. This is your first system so enjoy it and learn. It is more gratifying to start small and move up.

Do u recommend a specific cable from Wireworld? How are they compared to Cardas?

[robfine]

When I first met Ivan (which is how I found out about AA), I was looking for my first high-end cable which happened to be for USB. Ivan said to me then- when you put the words Wireworld and Silver together, you just cannot go wrong. In my experience, hat has been sage advice. I'm incredibly happy with my Silver Eclipse speaker cables, Silver Electra PCs and up until recently, USB (I just had to bite on a Platinum Starlight on one of Ivan's recent WW sales)(will soon upgrade from Eclipse for ICs). You can spend more and get better (well, I probably cannot spend much more, but anyway)-- I'd say start with WW Silver everything except for Platinum Starlight USB as an incredibly good base level of cables. You never have to go better than that. But, when that urge comes to reach for a bit (or a lot) more, venture up towards Platinum. There are others who have commented on their move up to Platinum in other threads. Me, I have daughters in grad school. One thing I can tell you that I think many others here will tell you (and some have already) : if you write a check for a million (or a hundred thousand) bucks and get the best of everything in equipment quality in one shot, you will (1) get bored with what you have, and (2) never know what you and your ears really like- what our real taste is. A BMW and Porsche will get you to the same place, both with a very nice driving experience. But not the same experience. The Porsche-preferers are not wrong and the BMW-preferrers are not wrong. One's not better just different. WW Silver will certainly let you know what your gear is capable of- and good enough for most anything else you may ever upgrade to. Then you can decide if your other equipment suits your taste or needs tweaking. Just my early Saturday thoughts.