I feel restless :(

[Sonic Guild]

Hello my friends

I just joined the 2.1 system club and just purchased the SF OIII. I like the sound stage (deep & wide), warm and not quite sure if I can say detailed. I came from an extensive headphones background. My headphones rig can be considered as a reference rig and you can call it one of the best in the world of headphones. So I am used to very high-end sound system and I know what is the difference between reference system and just high-end system.

Unfortunately, I feel restless whenever I hear people talking about other speakers like the Elipsa, Amati, guarneri evolution and B&W 802. I just can't feel OK with knowing that I missing a lot with the OIII. I am not even sure if I am really missing any sound qualities compared to any of the previous mentioned speakers. I am in a position where I can't audition many different speakers and this is why I purchased the OIII.

I want to hear from the experienced guys here. Am I missing anything with the OIII? Do u consider the OIII as a high-fi speakers? My most concern is about the openness of sound and air around instruments, is there a wide gap between the OIII and other speakers in this regard?

[harri009]

Would you mind telling us what headphones you are using as reference? This would help us set a baseline for the type of sound you are enjoying. For instance if your using Stax SR-009's I would suggest a set of higher end Martin Logan's, maybe Neoliths or king sound KS-10 speakers. If you are using Audeze LCD3's I would go with perhaps Magnepan 20.7's or something with a more planer type sound. Your needed budget and the rest of your system would also help. Personally if I was looking for air around the instruments and depth I would look no further than 20.7's

[Sonic Guild]

Originally Posted by harri009

Would you mind telling us what headphones you are using as reference? This would help us set a baseline for the type of sound you are enjoying. For instance if your using Stax SR-009's I would suggest a set of higher end Martin Logan's Neoliths or king sound KS-10 speakers. If you are using Audeze LCD3's I would go with perhaps Magnepan 20.7's or something with a more planer type sound. Your needed budget and the rest of your system would also help. Thanks

I enjoy my LCD3 (Fazor edition) + Simaudio Moon HA430 amp + Vega DAC. I love how the LCD sounds creamy, warm and detailed (not harsh). I also love how the LCD present well extended bass that goes really low. The only thing that I don't like about the LCD3 is the sound stage, it is nothing like the HD800 or Stax. BUT the issue with the Stax and HD800 is the hot treble which I can't tolerate at all.

I noticed that you said if I like the LCD3 then I would love the Magnepan 20.7, does that mean the OIII is not what I am looking for?

[harri009]

Originally Posted by Sonic Guild

I enjoy my LCD3 (Fazor edition) + Simaudio Moon HA430 amp + Vega DAC. I love how the LCD sounds creamy, warm and detailed (not harsh). I also love how the LCD present well extended bass that goes really low. The only thing that I don't like about the LCD3 is the sound stage, it is nothing like the HD800 or Stax. BUT the issue with the Stax and HD800 is the hot treble which I can't tolerate at all. I noticed that you said if I like the LCD3 then I would love the Magnepan 20.7, does that mean the OIII is not what I am looking for?

I am not a big SF fan but I have very little experience beyond the Olympica III of their line. I found them to be almost lifeless and would describe them as missing the features you are wondering about. We have some members here who can describe the aspects of Sonus Faber to a far greater length than myself and could perhaps describe the higher range of their line. I can tell you that I enjoyed the LCD3's as well and have an aversion to sharp sounding tweeters. With that being said I would not go with Logans or any other electrostat design as I find them all to have the similar effect as what the 009's have to the upper range. Yes Magnepans have all the attributes that I love in a speaker. Their only down sides their bass output which is almost negligible when you get up to he 3.7's and 20.7' and how much space they require. Which isn't a whole lot different from a regular speaker, but they have a horrible WAF for appearance lol. If you look into them and decide you have the space I would perhaps start with their MMG's which can be had for literally just a couple hundred. If you like then reasonably well then you can make the jump to the 20.7's at about $15k

[Sonic Guild]

Originally Posted by harri009

I am not a big SF fan but I have very little experience beyond the Venere III of their line. I found them to be almost lifeless and would describe them as missing the features you are wondering about. We have some members here who can describe the aspects of Sonus Faber to a far greater length than myself and could perhaps describe the higher range of their line. I can tell you that I enjoyed the LCD3's as well and have an aversion to sharp sounding tweeters. With that being said I would not go with Logans or any other electrostat design as I find them all to have the similar effect as what the 009's have to the upper range. Yes Magnepans have all the attributes that I love in a speaker. Their only down sides their bass output which is almost negligible when you get up to he 3.7's and 20.7' and how much space they require. Which isn't a whole lot different from a regular speaker, but they have a horrible WAF for appearance lol. If you look into them and decide you have the space I would perhaps start with their MMG's which can be had for literally just a couple hundred. If you like then reasonably well then you can make the jump to the 20.7's at about $15k

But aren't they directional?
I demoed the Soltanus ESL Virtuoso, they are open and detailed without being harsh. Yes I enjoyed it so much but the necessity to sit in the sweet spot is annoying and the weak bass is disappointing.

What lifeless means to you? I find it interesting to describe the SF lifeless.

[harri009]

Originally Posted by Sonic Guild

But aren't they directional? I demoed the Soltanus ESL Virtuoso, they are open and detailed without being harsh. Yes I enjoyed it so much but the necessity to sit in the sweet spot is annoying and the weak bass is disappointing. What lifeless means to you? I find it interesting to describe the SF lifeless.

Solanums are electrostats which I as a whole do not like and yes electrostats are known to be very directional. The Magnepans are a ribbon and planer design. Like any speaker you will get the best results in the sweet spot but by no means are they directional in the same way that electrostats are. I guess a better word would have been dull rather than lifeless.

[Glisse]

Sonic Guild,

It seems you are not in a good place

I have read many of your previous posts, which were in the main Olympica III thread. From what I can tell:

• You live in an area where you can't hear any of the speakers you were interested in buying, so you have relied on reviews/forum opinions/advice of friends.
• You have little experience of two channel stereo systems, as in the past you have been a headphone user.
• You decided on Olympica II, but as soon as you bought these, you seem to have found a very good offer on Olympica III, and now have those instead.
• You have been asking questions on what amplifier to use on the Olympica III, but don't seem to have bought one yet.
• Ever since you have bought the Olympica III, you are questioning whether they are "good enough".

It really is playing the lottery to try and assemble a system in this manner, unless you are happy to buy and then sell to try something else.

There is a fundamental difference between a headphone system and a speaker system. In a speaker system, the most significant influence on the sound is the relationship between the speaker and the room it is in. Two people in the other thread suggested to you that you may not have optimised the Olympica III's position in the room.

You didn't pay much attention to that, but you should have.

Even movements as small as 2cm can have a profound influence on the performance. Position from side wall and rear walls, listening position relative to ceiling reflections, toe in and tilt will all have significant effects. I get the impression that you are not aware of these considerations, which is completely understandable for a headphone user.

I have both Amati Futura and Guarneri Evolution. The first is in a ~50m2 room, the second in a 25m2 room, both with tall 3.5m ceiling heights. The Amati sounds bloated and slower in the small room, the Guarneri sounds smaller and thinner in the large room, comparative to each other. Even so, in their "optimum" rooms, I get better bass definition from the Guarneri, as I have bass nodes in the large room that I cannot easily fix.

But if I was forced to keep only one, I would keep the Guarneri because it offers more flexibility with positioning in different sized rooms to get closer to its maximum potential.

The Olympica III is a relatively large speaker, with a strong bass output. It will possibly overpower a smaller listening room - this can result in a loss of transparency / air / separation, which is what seems to be concerning you.

If you search in the SF forum, you will find many excellent posts about achieving optimum speaker placement in the room, and look in particular for posts by Metaphacts.

Due to its driver array, the Olympica III needs an amplifier capable of delivering plenty of current, and to also be sufficiently transparent to get the most out the Olympica. I know a number of people said they have heard good results with tube amps, but I would not risk this myself unless I could hear it in my own room first.

I was interested reading your second post here about comparative strengths/weaknesses of Stax/Sennheiser/Audeze headphones with your amp/DAC components. It sounds like you are very sensitive to any hardness in the upper midrange / lower treble area. Whilst peripheral to your current Olympica issue, you should try and listen to an R2R/ladder DAC if the opportunity arises.

Before swapping/trading/selling the Olympica III for yet another speaker, which you may or may not prefer, I would first try to get the most out of them. You do not have any local dealer who carries a quality range of amplifiers and DACs?

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Glisse

Sonic Guild,

It seems you are not in a good place

I have read many of your previous posts, which were in the main Olympica III thread. From what I can tell:

• You live in an area where you can't hear any of the speakers you were interested in buying, so you have relied on reviews/forum opinions/advice of friends.
• You have little experience of two channel stereo systems, as in the past you have been a headphone user.
• You decided on Olympica II, but as soon as you bought these, you seem to have found a very good offer on Olympica III, and now have those instead.
• You have been asking questions on what amplifier to use on the Olympica III, but don't seem to have bought one yet.
• Ever since you have bought the Olympica III, you are questioning whether they are "good enough".

It really is playing the lottery to try and assemble a system in this manner, unless you are happy to buy and then sell to try something else.

There is a fundamental difference between a headphone system and a speaker system. In a speaker system, the most significant influence on the sound is the relationship between the speaker and the room it is in. Two people in the other thread suggested to you that you may not have optimised the Olympica III's position in the room.

You didn't pay much attention to that, but you should have.

Even movements as small as 2cm can have a profound influence on the performance. Position from side wall and rear walls, listening position relative to ceiling reflections, toe in and tilt will all have significant effects. I get the impression that you are not aware of these considerations, which is completely understandable for a headphone user.

I have both Amati Futura and Guarneri Evolution. The first is in a ~50m2 room, the second in a 25m2 room, both with tall 3.5m ceiling heights. The Amati sounds bloated and slower in the small room, the Guarneri sounds smaller and thinner in the large room, comparative to each other. Even so, in their "optimum" rooms, I get better bass definition from the Guarneri, as I have bass nodes in the large room that I cannot easily fix.

But if I was forced to keep only one, I would keep the Guarneri because it offers more flexibility with positioning in different sized rooms to get closer to its maximum potential.

The Olympica III is a relatively large speaker, with a strong bass output. It will possibly overpower a smaller listening room - this can result in a loss of transparency / air / separation, which is what seems to be concerning you.

If you search in the SF forum, you will find many excellent posts about achieving optimum speaker placement in the room, and look in particular for posts by Metaphacts.

Due to its driver array, the Olympica III needs an amplifier capable of delivering plenty of current, and to also be sufficiently transparent to get the most out the Olympica. I know a number of people said they have heard good results with tube amps, but I would not risk this myself unless I could hear it in my own room first.

I was interested reading your second post here about comparative strengths/weaknesses of Stax/Sennheiser/Audeze headphones with your amp/DAC components. It sounds like you are very sensitive to any hardness in the upper midrange / lower treble area. Whilst peripheral to your current Olympica issue, you should try and listen to an R2R/ladder DAC if the opportunity arises.

Before swapping/trading/selling the Olympica III for yet another speaker, which you may or may not prefer, I would first try to get the most out of them. You do not have any local dealer who carries a quality range of amplifiers and DACs?

+ 1.

I would like to add that the speakers are of a sufficient pedigree to provide you with the most amazing musical experience. You do need to partner and position them correctly however. These speakers will respond to partnering equipment of high calibre in spades.

In all honesty I don’t think a $5000 amp with build in DAC is good enough. You need a purist amp of at least $10,000 unless you can get a second hand bargain.
There will always be something better, we are all struggling with that, however I think the speakers are really good enough, but you need to partner them with a high-end amp. A Burmester 082 comes to mind!

Douglas

[antipop]

Originally Posted by Glisse

Sonic Guild,

It seems you are not in a good place

I have read many of your previous posts, which were in the main Olympica III thread. From what I can tell:

• You live in an area where you can't hear any of the speakers you were interested in buying, so you have relied on reviews/forum opinions/advice of friends.
• You have little experience of two channel stereo systems, as in the past you have been a headphone user.
• You decided on Olympica II, but as soon as you bought these, you seem to have found a very good offer on Olympica III, and now have those instead.
• You have been asking questions on what amplifier to use on the Olympica III, but don't seem to have bought one yet.
• Ever since you have bought the Olympica III, you are questioning whether they are "good enough".

It really is playing the lottery to try and assemble a system in this manner, unless you are happy to buy and then sell to try something else.

There is a fundamental difference between a headphone system and a speaker system. In a speaker system, the most significant influence on the sound is the relationship between the speaker and the room it is in. Two people in the other thread suggested to you that you may not have optimised the Olympica III's position in the room.

You didn't pay much attention to that, but you should have.

Even movements as small as 2cm can have a profound influence on the performance. Position from side wall and rear walls, listening position relative to ceiling reflections, toe in and tilt will all have significant effects. I get the impression that you are not aware of these considerations, which is completely understandable for a headphone user.

I have both Amati Futura and Guarneri Evolution. The first is in a ~50m2 room, the second in a 25m2 room, both with tall 3.5m ceiling heights. The Amati sounds bloated and slower in the small room, the Guarneri sounds smaller and thinner in the large room, comparative to each other. Even so, in their "optimum" rooms, I get better bass definition from the Guarneri, as I have bass nodes in the large room that I cannot easily fix.

But if I was forced to keep only one, I would keep the Guarneri because it offers more flexibility with positioning in different sized rooms to get closer to its maximum potential.

The Olympica III is a relatively large speaker, with a strong bass output. It will possibly overpower a smaller listening room - this can result in a loss of transparency / air / separation, which is what seems to be concerning you.

If you search in the SF forum, you will find many excellent posts about achieving optimum speaker placement in the room, and look in particular for posts by Metaphacts.

Due to its driver array, the Olympica III needs an amplifier capable of delivering plenty of current, and to also be sufficiently transparent to get the most out the Olympica. I know a number of people said they have heard good results with tube amps, but I would not risk this myself unless I could hear it in my own room first.

I was interested reading your second post here about comparative strengths/weaknesses of Stax/Sennheiser/Audeze headphones with your amp/DAC components. It sounds like you are very sensitive to any hardness in the upper midrange / lower treble area. Whilst peripheral to your current Olympica issue, you should try and listen to an R2R/ladder DAC if the opportunity arises.

Before swapping/trading/selling the Olympica III for yet another speaker, which you may or may not prefer, I would first try to get the most out of them. You do not have any local dealer who carries a quality range of amplifiers and DACs?

There is not much to add. To really help you, we need to know more about the rest of the system, the cables used, the room and placement of the speakers,...

I've had an horrible experience with a pair of Venere until I swap the cables. They had an insane impact on the sound. So knowing the rest of the system is important too.

When you're willing to spend 10k+ on speakers and certainly 20k+ on the whole system, it is reasonable to spend a little money on travel and going to listen and compare different system to find which suits you best.

I've done some blind purchase but never for speakers and amps.

Last but not least, the speakers you mention are not in the same price range as the OIII. You get different products at different price ranges and in this hobby you always have better, bigger and more expensive but you should know where to draw the line.

[harri009]

Just called my buddy and found out that it was the Olympica 3's that he had, which are the only ones I have really heard. So my comment was directly related to those.