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  #31  
Old 04-29-2019, 09:36 AM
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Charles - you have a wonderful system that gives you great pleasure. You’ve found that solid silver gives you great synergy with the components you have carefully selected. Enjoy it in good health!
Tom
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  #32  
Old 05-01-2019, 05:23 PM
Faintandfuzzy Faintandfuzzy is offline
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I am fascinated as to how the cable can transmit software code bit perfect regardless of cable used...yet for some reason with audio, there is a huge failure rate on data. How does the cable know if data bits or audio bits are being transmitted? Sorry for a bit of the snark, but when I was at an audio show, those claiming to hear the difference suddenly lost the ability under testing conditions. Why are software transmissions perfect, yet the data data from a FLAC suddenly falling apart?
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  #33  
Old 05-01-2019, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faintandfuzzy View Post
I am fascinated as to how the cable can transmit software code bit perfect regardless of cable used...yet for some reason with audio, there is a huge failure rate on data. How does the cable know if data bits or audio bits are being transmitted? Sorry for a bit of the snark, but when I was at an audio show, those claiming to hear the difference suddenly lost the ability under testing conditions. Why are software transmissions perfect, yet the data data from a FLAC suddenly falling apart?
This has been explained many times, but I'll try again... First of all digital data is not transmitted in digital format (ones and zeros as many believe) over a cable, but as an analog signal representing the digital data. As such the signal is not a perfect square wave... in reality it exhibits overshoot, settling time issues, jitter, judder, etc. which are all types of distortion related to the timing of the signal transitions (when changing between the levels representing zero and one).

When transmitting computer data only the recovered 'digital' data is of meaning, but with audio signals the timing of the data is also of significance. The digital clock signal is embedded in the timing of those transitions, and can be directly affected and corrupted by the types of distortion mentioned above. So a digital cable transmitting an audio signal via the SPDIF standard will have the resultant analog signal altered from the original analog signal after D to A conversion from such timing related distortions directly impacting accurate recovery of the digital signal's clock.

That's the best I can do to explain the difference between computer data transmission and digital audio transmission and why there is a difference. Hope it helps!
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  #34  
Old 05-01-2019, 09:08 PM
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Good post!
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2019, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio bill View Post
This has been explained many times, but I'll try again... First of all digital data is not transmitted in digital format (ones and zeros as many believe) over a cable, but as an analog signal representing the digital data. As such the signal is not a perfect square wave... in reality it exhibits overshoot, settling time issues, jitter, judder, etc. which are all types of distortion related to the timing of the signal transitions (when changing between the levels representing zero and one).

When transmitting computer data only the recovered 'digital' data is of meaning, but with audio signals the timing of the data is also of significance. The digital clock signal is embedded in the timing of those transitions, and can be directly affected and corrupted by the types of distortion mentioned above. So a digital cable transmitting an audio signal via the SPDIF standard will have the resultant analog signal altered from the original analog signal after D to A conversion from such timing related distortions directly impacting accurate recovery of the digital signal's clock.

That's the best I can do to explain the difference between computer data transmission and digital audio transmission and why there is a difference. Hope it helps!
This is really a great post that explains the key performance attributes impacting digital playback, especially when streaming from music servers. The bottom line is that EVERYTHING matters and has an impact on perceivable audio quality. It doesn't matter if a printer or computer display has to wait for a few micro- or miiliseconds for a data packet to be re-sent. However, for music reproduction, timing is absolutely critical. This is why folks spend big bucks for digital (femto)clocks with rubidium crystal oscillators, for example.

Ethernet and USB cables are also subject to a lack of galvanic isolation, EM, RFI radiation, induction from EM radiation from wide-bandwidth processors, e.g. CPUs, GPUs, vibration, and other sources of noise. Key parameters here are not only the timing of the signals, but the quality of the power supplies as well. And these noise components are discernable and audible. A big source of garbage noise are the very cheap switch-mode power supplies in computers used as music servers; these are incredibly "dirty". One of the best things can do is to get a computer out of the audio rack and as far away as possible from the amplfication components (inverse-square law and all that...)

There is a really good video on this on Hans Beekhuzen's YT channel: https://youtu.be/n26CMGX_yrk
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Last edited by Puma Cat; 05-01-2019 at 11:02 PM.
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  #36  
Old 05-03-2019, 07:38 AM
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This discussion could be very interesting if BOTH participants had tried both cables in their system.
One is speaking from experience, the other from specs.
It would really be interesting if Charles would try out the Venom USB in his system.
Maybe he will be surprised. Maybe not.
As long as he won’t try it, his arguments reads more like a defends mechanisme than an actual argument from experience.
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  #37  
Old 05-03-2019, 04:25 PM
Faintandfuzzy Faintandfuzzy is offline
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Thanks Audio Bill. That is one of the best summaries that answered my question. Much appreciated!
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  #38  
Old 05-03-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faintandfuzzy View Post
Thanks Audio Bill. That is one of the best summaries that answered my question. Much appreciated!
Audio Bill and Puma Cat have good points. A poor cable (and equally often a poor implementation of the transmitter/receiver circuits and topologies) can let in a lot analog noise that can bypass the digital side and corrupt the downstream analog sections. W9TR has also explained this.

Of note on USB transmission - there are several basic formats. So called 'isochronous' - meaning equal time intervals - is used very often for audio streaming. Unlike formats used for pure data transmission ('bulk' transfer), isochronous cannot report errors and hence has no error correction/re-transmission. So it is possible to have fantastic data transmission but still suffer with real-time transmission.

Fixes to these problems come at various price levels.
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Last edited by clpetersen; 05-03-2019 at 07:48 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2019, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Audio Bill and Puma Cat have good points. A poor cable (and more often a poor engineering implementation of the transmitter/receiver circuits and topologies) can let in a lot analog noise that can bypass the digital side and corrupt the downstream analog sections. W9TR has also explained this.

Of note on USB transmission - there are several basic formats. So called 'isochronous' - meaning equal time intervals - is used very often for audio streaming. Unlike formats used for pure data transmission ('bulk' transfer), isochronous cannot report errors and hence has no error correction/re-transmission. So it is possible to have fantastic data transmission but still suffer with real-time transmission.

Fixes to these problems come at various price levels.
Good post.
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