Bi-Wiring 800D's?

[Matt Lan]

I have a new (to me) set of 800D's that I am getting ready to set up. Started a thread in the Mc forum, but coming here for a specific question as pertains to my B&W speakers. I have heard this is a controversial subject, but do not understand why. Bi-amping makes sense to me. Bi-wiring, I am not so sure I get it.

Bi-Wire, yes or no?

If yes, why?

How big a difference does it make?

How would you bi-wire from a Mc 501 which has individual 2.4 and 8 ohm taps?

Thanks!

Matt

[Masterlu]

Matt... I am a believer in Bi-wire. It is very inexpensive, and if your speakers will accept 2 sets of inputs I recommend it.

On the amp end, they have a single pair of connections.

[Matt Lan]

Thanks Ivan. Besides the relative affordability, how much and what type of improvements do you personally hear from bi-wiring?

Yes, these particular speakers have a "low" set of terminals, and another for the "mid/highs". They are currently bridged, as I assume the prior owner did not bi-wire or bi-amp them.

As you are familiar with the 501's, I am a little confused by the 2/4/8 ohm taps. Someone in a previous post had mentioned perhaps running a set of wires from 2different impedance outputs, i.e. 2 of the amp outs (4 wires) and 2 speaker ins (also 4 wires).

Still a little confused.

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by Matt Lane

Thanks Ivan. Besides the relative affordability, how much and what type of improvements do you personally hear from bi-wiring?

Yes, these particular speakers have a "low" set of terminals, and another for the "mid/highs". They are currently bridged, as I assume the prior owner did not bi-wire or bi-amp them.

As you are familiar with the 501's, I am a little confused by the 2/4/8 ohm taps. Someone in a previous post had mentioned perhaps running a set of wires from 2different impedance outputs, i.e. 2 of the amp outs (4 wires) and 2 speaker ins (also 4 wires).

Still a little confused.

First, I would only be using the taps off the 501 that best matches your speakers.

My experience has been favorable as far as the lower octaves are concerned; nothing dramatic, and as always YMMV.

[jdandy]

Matt.......I am not a big believer of bi-wiring speakers. I think the concept of bi-wiring began with wire manufacturers trying to sell more wire. Why buy one pair of speaker wires when a manufacturer and/or a dealer can convince you to purchase two pairs. It has been sold as being "almost as good" as bi-amping, which is total hogwash. Bi-amping, of course, is considerably more expensive to accomplish, so dealers often play on this to convince customers that bi-wiring is the next best thing to bi-amping for raising the performance bar.

I have had personal experience with both bi-amping and bi-wiring on several occasions with multiple amplifiers and speakers. Bi-amping always delivered a performance advantage, both with speaker crossovers, and with active crossovers. On the other hand, it has been my experience that bi-wiring delivered no significant performance advantage over a single cable run, providing the speaker cables are of significant wire gauge for the current capability of the amplifier being used. In fact, if the length of wires used to bi-wire are not of the exact length and equal gauge there can be both a resistance and capacitance difference between the runs that impacts the audio frequency range. I have wanted to hear a performance gain from bi-wiring, but unfortunately that has not been the case. I have tried the experiment several times with different speakers and amplifiers, and in every case the system sounded the same with a single speaker cable run versus bi-wiring.

There are some manufacturer's that will terminate their speaker cable runs in a bi-wire configuration where there is a single termination on the amplifier end and dual sets of positive and negative terminations at the speaker end. This effectively reduces the wire gauge, typically by half at the speaker terminations. Whether or not this somehow magically improves the speaker's performance is anyone's guess, but in my opinion it is a placebo effect at best. Opinions vary widely on this subject, and your personal experiences will no doubt shed light on the subject. It's all about having fun, anyway, so enjoy yourself.

[Face]

My opinion is similar to Dan's.

Bi-wiring is over rated, IMO. The use of high quality jumper(no brass) should net the same gains and save you money too.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by jdandy

There are some manufacturer's that will terminate their speaker cable runs in a bi-wire configuration where there is a single termination on the amplifier end and dual sets of positive and negative terminations at the speaker end. This effectively reduces the wire gauge, typically by half at the speaker terminations.

Can you explain how you can to this conclusion? Are you assuming that a single run precedes the termination or that the use of a single (rather than dual) spade lug reduces the gauge?

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by Face

My opinion is similar to Dan's.

Bi-wiring is over rated, IMO. The use of high quality jumper(no brass) should net the same gains and save you money too.

My jumpers cost more than Bi-wires.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Can you explain how you can to this conclusion? Are you assuming that a single run precedes the termination or that the use of a single (rather than dual) spade lug reduces the gauge?

Kal.......An example of the type of bi-wire termination I referred to would be the Wireworld Oasis speaker cable. The Wireworld DNA Helix (Quad conductor) cable design uses a stacked array of four flat conductors to neutralize the electromagnetic loss that filters the signal in other cables. This conductor arrangement simplifies bi-wire configuration. It is a 10 gauge speaker cable when it is terminated on both ends with single spades on the positive and negative grouped wires. When configured for bi-wire, the individual conductors in the cable's Quad conductor arrangement are half the aggregate wire gauge when configured for bi-wire versus single conductors. This DNA Helix cable can have single spade terminals on one end and bi-wire spade terminals on the other end, but no matter how the cable is terminated for bi-wire configurations, the end result is half the wire gauge of the same cable terminated as single positive and negative conductors.

[prepress]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Kal.......An example of the type of bi-wire termination I referred to would be the Wireworld Oasis speaker cable. The Wireworld DNA Helix (Quad conductor) cable design uses a stacked array of four flat conductors to neutralize the electromagnetic loss that filters the signal in other cables. This conductor arrangement simplifies bi-wire configuration. It is a 10 gauge speaker cable when it is terminated on both ends with single spades on the positive and negative grouped wires. When configured for bi-wire, the individual conductors in the cable's Quad conductor arrangement are half the aggregate wire gauge when configured for bi-wire versus single conductors. This DNA Helix cable can have single spade terminals on one end and bi-wire spade terminals on the other end, but no matter how the cable is terminated for bi-wire configurations, the end result is half the wire gauge of the same cable terminated as single positive and negative conductors.

This is what I was told when I called Kimber to ask about using a single bi-wire pair of 8TC, as opposed to 2 regular pairs. The overall gauge doesn't change (it's still 9AWG), so I would have fewer conductors going to each speaker terminal. I didn't like that idea.