#61
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Hey guys...here is an excellent primer on Moving Coil Cartridge Step-up Transformers:
Moving Coil Step Up Guide Last edited by junker; 12-11-2015 at 02:01 PM. |
#62
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Quote:
Another outstanding post. I wish I've read it long time ago. I was kind of aware of bits and pieces of the info, you presented, but to compile it into such a cohesive picture, that's is something else entirely, and thank you again for that. A few points: You are obviously right about calculating step-up ratio (blame Junker for that) I admit to making a mistake with regard to high output of EMT cart, shouldn't have, without taking appropriate SUT into a consideration. Koetsu- Graham combo: I have to report, that I didn't come up with that decision entirely on my own. After reading multiple (less, than educated opinions), I thought it would be a good match. After reading your post again, and giving it some serious thought, Since I really want to give Shindo a best shot possible, I devised a plan of action: 1. Get EMT JSD6 cart Auditorium 23 Hommage SUT (T2 is the appropriate one for EMT?) keep Graham Phantom Supreme II tone arm That way, I should have tone arm, cartridge, SUT and Shindo VR preamp chain "in order". Avantgarde- Lamm combo works very well, so, the only questionable link will be Shindo- Lamm. As an alternative, I have an easy access to Kuzma 4 Point arm (14 g. effective mass), and 12" Reed 3 P with Ebony arm tube- (19 g. effective mass). Do you think any of these 2 would be a better match to EMT JSD6, than Graham?(they don't publish effective mass numbers) And I really appreciate your time helping out. I think, I'm not the only one here, benefiting from your outstanding mastery of the subject. |
#63
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One more thing- about Lamm Line and phono stages.
I thought about it, but opted for one box solution in the end. I could get their top line and phono at very attractive price, but it is still too much $$$, and 7 separate chassis to boot. |
#64
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This is not true. The reflected impedance is going to be input impedance * 1/(step-up ratio)^2, which is then adjusted using a resistor on the secondary side of the transformer. Assuming 1:16 step-up ratio and a 100kOhm input impedance the natural impedance seen by the cartridge would be approximately 400ohm which is then reduced to somewhere under 100 ohms with the resistor. Shindo uses Lundahl amorphous core step-up transfos and even though they say they are all custom-wound I would bet money the ratio is 1:16 like in an LL1678 which would use 27,4 kOhm secondary parallel resistor to target 60 ohms at the cartridge, for example. The ratio could also be something like 1:20 as well but we are making assumptions based on a few basic specs.
Last edited by junker; 12-11-2015 at 05:57 PM. |
#65
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Yes EMT + Hommage Excellent combo-- I use the TSD15s in the 70's -in Hamburg-I stripped them down sans casing -ha!--(only trouble the coils picked up whiskers from the iron filings in the air!) Great Cart --tons of dynamics and attack --yes the Hommage SUT is the one to get for that combo--I had a basic A23 and found it a tad soft but so smooth and pleasant. Forget the Graham Arm with the Koetsu--if you go down that path--I agree with Ekki I have friends with the Reed-- good arm but no firsthand experience myself. I own both the Kuzma 4 Point Arm and the Shindo SPU so have experience with both I'd definitely go for the Kuzma--terrific arm and sonics Good listening, DesW |
#66
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Now, we seems to be getting somewhere |
#67
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-yes I would go for that Don't forget the Long version EMT Banana Arm --also excellent My personal pref is for the 4point --VTA on the fly and the superb Vernier Azimuth adjustment--a well designed and priced Arm. Apologies --back original topic DesW Last edited by DesW; 12-12-2015 at 12:39 AM. |
#68
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Kuzma 4 Point is 14 g. Graham is about the same and 12" Reed 3 P with Ebony wand is 19 g.? I know, those are just numbers, that don't necessarily translate in better sonic results, but still- I don't want to make another expensive mistake |
#69
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Ekki,
Could you chime in here, please? I decided to go with EMT JSD 6/ Auditorium 23 Hommage T2, so the decision I have to make now is about the arm: My present 10" Graham Phantom Supreme II (unknown effective mass, likely in the 12-14 g. range) Kuzma 4 Point- 14 g. effective mass 12" Reed 3P, Ebony wand- 19 g. effective mass Thanks |
#70
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Hi guys,
1. EMT JSD The EMT JSD5 and 6 have a compliance of 15 - that is compatible with Graham and also Kutzma - I would think the Graham is the better arm of the two - but that is just me.... VTA and Azimuth are also easy to adjust. The Graham has in my opinion the superior construction - but - as I said - it is just me. The 15-35g on the EMT web site is a matter of having an arm and a headshellsystem - so stay cool - about 35g;-)))) - that is way toooo much for 15cu compliance.... You can measure the eff mass with a test record - with attached EMT and Graham it should be around 10hz - you can also use the vinyl engine calculator - that is pretty much a precise tool. If you use 35g eff mass your f/res drops significantly to a figure, were you get trouble with resonances while walking or from the woofers of your system. And yes - the Reed ist also a fine flexible arm...I would place this near the Graham.... You already have a wonderful arm for carts which are not too stiff - a Koetsu needs a heavy arm. 2. Hommage T2: Get the torn ratio from your dealer - and than you can calculate - beside that, it is one of the best SUTs for an EMT right now (beneath custom SUTs). 3. The whole system: Do not ask me if a Lamm amp can handle the high gain Shindo VR - so that you can get normal gain situation together with your Avantgarde - I doubt it..... I have to look the specs and especially the input sensivity - how is VR with a line signal matching with your Lamm??? - Let´s say a CD player with 2V output gain??? - If that works than you can move on - of not, you have a compatibility problem between VR and Lamm. You should also have a look to input and output impedances of am and pre. Do not blame us ;-))) - if there is again too much gain....read trough all posts again - it is important, that you understand the whole system with all gain stages.... 4. All in all.... It is in most of the cases the same story - people, who are interested in Shindo do not come out of a HiFi vacuum - they already have something at home, which was very expensive. Than they read or hear a Shindo system - which is something else, than the conventional HiFi system. Than the story begins - parts of Shindo are implemented in the system - people already have. And that is the beginning of a long journey. Some go the way to the end - and with that I do not mean - buy the most expensive Shindo components - a small system, with Aurige and Montille, some Altec Speakers a Ligno Lab Garrard a EMT Arm or a Ortofon 309i or SME 3012 (if in good shape with bronce knife upgrade), a SPU or EMT or DL 103 with Ligno Shell and that put on a good rack system (Box or Ligno Lab or self made) - and it will work as it is ment to be - means no stress no hassle no nothing - just fun to listen. The other way is to stop half the way - and than it starts - no compatible speakers - no compatible front end, a mixture of pre and power amp - all that is everything else than what was constructed in those green boxes. And - much more difficult today - as every company makes things without any standard in mind. What I want to say - if you would own a Marantz 8B, or 9 mono - a MAC 225 or 240, a Quad or a Leak amp - they would work with the Shindo pres (with most of them) - because in those days they built the things with the 600 Ohm standard in mind.... Also gain was no problem - it is adjustable on a Mac and will work also with the Marantz (which has no input sensivity pots). But today everything is different....!!!!!! Please keep that in mind - I think you do not have only a problem with the right cart/SUT combo - there is also Gain problems with VR and Lamm... You have to sit back and think about what you want do listen today and maybe in 3 years. And if you like the Shindo sound - you have to do some radical decisions. If you are not sure - try the Lamm complete amp chain - it is also a very good sounding solution - which works with your speakers. Some people sell the Shindo stuff because they could not find a good solution with a mixture of Shindo and other stuff (which is also true wit mixed up equipment of other brands - think why you find so much stuff on audiogon and elsewhere...) 5. @Junker First we have to know if Shindo uses a 47Kohm RIAA input for his SUT solution. Than we have, as you describe a secondary load on the SUT - are you sure that is really the case????? My guess is a 1:26 SUT inside - and the Lundahls could be wired up in a different way....so there are more possibilities. The SPU should see something around 60 Ohms from the SUT - I mean a real SPU - not the stuff made today with 6 Ohms - for that you need 100 Ohm! And there is no reason to blame someone - it is not easy to read the figures and do draw a signal flow chart just watching the preamp - Junker is right when it comes to what Shindo presents officially - but that is in my opinion just the beginning - with no exact data on the given SUT without secondary loading and knowledge about the rest of the sheme (RIAA input impedance and so on) it is more or less guessing. Also intresting is the output of the RIAA to the Lin stage - is there any feedback?? - how is the RIAA cupeled to the Lin stage (kathode follower, Transformer, SRPP, direct?????). We do not know! Greetings Ekki PS: Here is another EMT fanboy sitting in Berlin;-)))) - Love the bold and saturated sound - maybe the greatest bass..... I use my EMT JSD5 with a Shröder Reference SQ with Bamboo armtube and 14g eff mass. Th Schröder is mounted on a Baur DPS III IT (in USA it is distributed via Ayre) - or I use it on the original EMT Banana Arm on a Platine - which is modified with a tape drive and a different motor. I use a EMT RIAA stage coming from an EMT 927 drive system with the original Neumann SUTs in place - sounds amazing! |
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