AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > AudioAficionado News > Technical Info & Troubleshooting

Technical Info & Troubleshooting Learn from the Pro's

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-18-2023, 11:08 PM
Xtraheadroom Xtraheadroom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 48
Default Amplifier Platforms - Why ?

So I’m curious as to the reason or purpose of having a dedicated platform/stand
for your amplifier. What’s the benefits that they offer over a good old fashioned low profile table?

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-19-2023, 01:48 AM
Puma Cat's Avatar
Puma Cat Puma Cat is online now
Cool, calm scientist

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 10,915
Default

They mitigate the imparting of vibration to the amplifier, which it's components (transistors, diodes, caps, resistors, tubes, etc) do not like. My guess is the transfomers don't like it much, either.

For example, even the insulator (dielectric) for the wiring can induce triboelectric noise imparted by vibration.

For digital components, for example, the crystal oscillators in the clocks are VERY sensitive to vibration.

You should also elevate your cables of the floor, as well, in particular, the speaker cables (SPs) and power cables (PCs) are sensitive to floor-borne vibration. I used think cable elevators were a bunch of hoo-ha. Boy, was I WRONG on that one....yikes.

Cable elevators for SPs as shown...

With respect to components, my Lumin P1 shown (L middle rack shelf) is resting on it's own footers (Lumin is good at this) on a 3-layer IKEA Aptitlig bamboo platform resting on Herbie's Audio Labs Tenderfoot footer. The Aptitlig cutting board platform has bamboo with the grain running in three alternating orientations. Turns out bamboo is one of the best materials for damping vibration, and the IKEA Aptitlig cutting boards are only ~$20/each. Same applies to the Altaira stack that is also on it's own Aptitlig platform. Lots of audio guys use Aptitlig boards as a very cost-effective vibration damping platform. The Altairas also have Shunyata's optional SSF-38 footers installed, which have exceptional impulse transfer speed, so they transfer vibration away from the Altaira VERY quickly, before it can have an impact on audio quality. Thes are the best footers for Altaira.

The Constellation Inspiration integrated on the rock maple platform rests on the HRS Nimbus couplers, which are very effective at damping vibration.

__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.

Last edited by Puma Cat; 01-19-2023 at 02:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:02 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

They look nice.
They prevent you from hitting your $$$$ amps with the vacuum cleaner.
If used on carpeted floors, they ensure the ventilation for your amp works as designed.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2023, 07:50 PM
Xtraheadroom Xtraheadroom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 48
Default

Thanks all. Looks like I have some shopping to do. Any recommendations?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2023, 11:01 PM
Tom R. Tom R. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ah, South California
Posts: 45
Default

I recently bought an amp stand from Monoprice for about $60. It was assembled quickly, it's level and very sturdy--surprisingly so. I even noticed an improvement in sound after putting my amp on it. Unless you want a stand specifically designed to keep vibrations away from the amp, which would cost considerably more, I recommend the Monoprice stand.

Tom
__________________
LP12/HanaML/C2300/MC275mkVI/B&W805N.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-27-2023, 12:56 AM
Puma Cat's Avatar
Puma Cat Puma Cat is online now
Cool, calm scientist

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 10,915
Default

IKEA Aptitlig bamboo cutting boards. 20 bucks. I'm tellin' ya...
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-27-2023, 02:01 AM
tima tima is online now
Living La Vida Vinyl
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtraheadroom View Post
Thanks all. Looks like I have some shopping to do. Any recommendations?
Whatever you set your amps on will change how they sound. The goal is to avert the influence of floor borne vibration from entering into the amp and to provide a path for internal vibration (energy) to 'do work', to use itself up, turning into heat. Ideally you want to redluce the resonance frequency of the amp to a point below where its effect is outside the audible range.

The vast majority of inexpensive amp stands will get your equipment off the floor but are not designed to do any real resonance control or vibration mitigation and, more likely than not, they will add coloration in one form or another.

You will likely hear a difference in sound so you will find that amp stands have an effect -- whether that reveals a more realistic sound, more of what the equipment designer intended or not is the question.

If you want an effective amp stand, its design intent should be in line with the goals laid out above. Most manufacturers will claim their product reduces vibration. Make them prove it to you.

Serious brands include Harmonic Resolution Systems (HRS), Critical Mass Systems (CMS) and my favorite, Silent Running Audio (SRA).

These issues are discussed in this review:

Silent Running Audio – Virginia-Class Reference isoBASE
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-27-2023, 10:58 AM
clpetersen clpetersen is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,064
Default

Tima - good points. Yes, anyone claiming vibration damping should provide measurements (it is easy and inexpensive to do, folks do it everyday). I recall Stephen (Puma-Cat) did that in his home set-up (correct?)

But don't underestimate wood! Great at vibration damping (and extensively studied).


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34576504/
__________________
Main - Roon on Synology/Sonos Port/SoTM Neo endpoints; Chord Qutest, Bryston BP-17 cubed with phono option; EAT C-sharp with Ortofon Bronze MM, Bryston cubed Amplifier; Revel F126Be on custom Atocha stands; interconnects by WireWorld, furniture by Atocha Design 'Phones Audeze LCD-3, Bryston BHA-1; Office: Sonos/Roon; OPPO HA-1, Naim NAP100 and PSB Mini-C. Media Room:, Samsung QLED QN90 series, Sonos, OPPO 205, ATI N-core driving KEF LS-50's with REL subs; furniture by Glassisimo; Kids - U-turn for vinyl, Sonos Play5; Summer Shack - Sonos, vintage Pioneer, Dynaudio Special 40's.

Last edited by clpetersen; 01-27-2023 at 11:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-27-2023, 02:05 PM
Puma Cat's Avatar
Puma Cat Puma Cat is online now
Cool, calm scientist

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 10,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Tima - good points. Yes, anyone claiming vibration damping should provide measurements (it is easy and inexpensive to do, folks do it everyday). I recall Stephen (Puma-Cat) did that in his home set-up (correct?)
Yup! I used an iPhone app called VibSensor and measured Power, RMS imparted to the component (in this case, my Schiit Gungnir DAC) from a "slide hammer". The slide hammer was a socket on a bolt with a nut to precisely and reproducably fix the distance of the drop of the socket onto the rack shelf precisely (to remove variance). I simply raised the socket up to the stop nut, and let it drop onto the head of the bolt resting on the shelf, and then plotted the vibration imparted to the iPhone resting on the DAC.

Here's the Z Dimension vibration data from VibSensor plotted in JMP as Power, RMS from 0 to 50 Hz. The stock Schiit feet were the worst, and the very affordable Herbie's "Tenderfeet" (red trace) did quite well given their price, but Norm Varney's EVPs (blue trace) were the most effective by far. DVT were the rubber and "blue rubber" Diversitech anti-vibration pads. I'd love to do this test with IsoAcoustics footers, but I don't have any around, and unfortunately, VibSensor is no longer available as an app.



The data is clear, though, in showing that Norm's EVPs are the most effective, by far...none of others are even close.
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.

Last edited by Puma Cat; 01-27-2023 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-29-2023, 02:52 AM
tima tima is online now
Living La Vida Vinyl
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Tima - good points. Yes, anyone claiming vibration damping should provide measurements (it is easy and inexpensive to do, folks do it everyday). I recall Stephen (Puma-Cat) did that in his home set-up (correct?)

But don't underestimate wood! Great at vibration damping (and extensively studied).
Yes, measurements can provide information. When measuring it is the combination of the specific component on the platform that counts. Whatever you set a component on will change the resonance frequency of both objects. Vibrations at the resonance frequency of the component will increase the amplitude of vibration in the component. Multiple frequencies of vibration impact the component simultaneously and no single material (wood, whatever) is capable of handling multiple frequencies in terms of both damping and isolation. Thus the frequent use of constrained layer construction with a multi-purpose design: impede external vibration from entering the component (for example, from the floor) while providing a mechanism for vibration within the component to convert from mechanical energy to heat.

Imo the final proof comes with listening.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video