What Are Hi-Res Downloads Really?

[Yamaki]

I look for 24/96 files that are taken from the original master.

Some HDCD's will rip to 24/44.1

Upsampling by an external unit doesn't seem to do much of anything for my ears and I think that's because the quality of the source file isn't up to par with a true master recording in many cases.

[o0OBillO0o]

Gents and the six(?) ladies....................

The word is Provenance, Provenance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is the chronology of the ownership, custody or location of a historical object

Right now, there is limited validation to what you are actually getting is the real deal.

[As an example] Oh the light on a Pono player means its "Master Quality" (that was hacked) or when you are listening to TIDAL Hifi and the white HIFI lights up, which is supposed to mean you are getting 16/44 CD Audio quality streaming. How can you prove or disprove that you are or are not getting what you paid for? Really we don't have a good set of tools for the music collector to invest in to spend time on this validation process.

It's stuff to think about.

Contrary, finding a Vinyl Record, SACD, and CD can substantiate provenance. Just look for the catalog number and other marks as indicated on Discogs or other record trading circles.

[Golucid]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

Gents and the six(?) ladies.................... The word is Provenance, Provenance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is the chronology of the ownership, custody or location of a historical object Right now, there is limited validation to what you are actually getting is the real deal. Oh the light on a Pono player means its "Master Quality" (that was hacked) or when you are listening to TIDAL Hifi and the white HIFI lights up, which is supposed to mean you are getting 16/44 CD Audio quality streaming. How can you prove or disprove that you are or are not getting what you paid for? Really we don't have a good set of tools for the music collector to invest in to spend time on this validation process. It's stuff to think about. Contrary, finding a Vinyl Record, SACD, and CD can substantiate provenance. Just look for the catalog number and other marks as indicated on Discogs or other record trading circles.

sobering ... mmm

[chessman]

I can see we are going to need a white paper on this. The more I read, the more contingent factors I identify. For example, "oversample" vs. "upsample." Or "non-linear distortion" vs. "time smearing" as the problem that is being fixed.

This much seems clear: sample rate manipulation and the introduction of filters are there to mitigate the damage to the signal that is solely the result of digital recording. Upsampling seems to be a form of "weak" oversampling (i.e. the high pass filter at the end of the process is a slope when upsampling, rather than a brick wall filter like with oversampling). Upsampling does not seem to be meaningful interpolation of the signal (compare video upsampling which is just that), but is rather dithering (empty data) aimed at causing the digitally induced ultrasonic reflections to occur at higher than 22,000H.

It's almost enough to drive a guy back to vinyl. (Not really, still hate snap, crackle and pop).

The other maddening thing is that upsampled digital signals are reported by many people to sound "better," although there is not a consensus as to why. That matches my Wyred 4 Sound Remedy experience. Hmmm, much to consider.

[rbbert]

I thought we were talking about hi-res music files? The overwhelming majority sold as such are "real", just what they claim to be. OTOH, mastering trumps format virtually every time, and poor mastering is a problem many orders of magnitude greater than the relatively small number of inaccurately described hi-res files. A poorly mastered 24/192 recording will sound worse than a well-mastered CD.

[audio bill]

rbbert - that's why in my previous post I referenced some companies that produce and record their own music which is mastered in high resolution. The authenticity of these cannot be questioned since they are mastered directly in high res and not up-converted. I agree with you, that so much of a recording's sound quality is determined by the mastering. It cannot be recreated once it's destroyed by a poor mastering job, regardless of any further processing or up-conversion performed later.

[j3brow]

Originally Posted by rbbert

I thought we were talking about hi-res music files? The overwhelming majority sold as such are "real", just what they claim to be. OTOH, mastering trumps format virtually every time, and poor mastering is a problem many orders of magnitude greater than the relatively small number of inaccurately described hi-res files. A poorly mastered 24/192 recording will sound worse than a well-mastered CD.

Hit nail on head. Well said.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by rbbert

I thought we were talking about hi-res music files? The overwhelming majority sold as such are "real", just what they claim to be. OTOH, mastering trumps format virtually every time, and poor mastering is a problem many orders of magnitude greater than the relatively small number of inaccurately described hi-res files. A poorly mastered 24/192 recording will sound worse than a well-mastered CD.

rbbert, first I absolutely agree that skill in mastering can obviate the resolution as the dispositive factor in sound quality. Second, "real" as a definition is what I am asking about. I do not think that an upsample from a 16/44.1 CD is really hi-res. I think that a transfer from a 24/96 master tape would be. Let's set aside the question of whether 24/96 "really" sounds better than 16/44.1. I am just trying to figure out how to identify true hi-res music. I will use auditioning later to see if I can hear the difference.

[o0OBillO0o]

Here is a tool.
https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/

Here is an article about the tool.
Picking Up Some HRA Tools | Real HD-Audio

[chessman]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

Here is a tool.
https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/

Here is an article about the tool.
Picking Up Some HRA Tools | Real HD-Audio

Thanks, Bill!