Controversial Opinion

[Charles]

Originally Posted by rlacoste

Yes, in an abstract world, 1+1 may not equal 2, but here in reality, the Q5 has 12 db more output at 10Hz and almost 20db more output at 20K. Between 30 and 60 Hz the MAXX output in MF room has hardly 2 db more energy. The MAXX has a huge suckout in its power region. That is why you "think" it has more bass, but it is an illusion, that is clearly shown in these measurements (Please read Toole's book). There are no evidences, whatsoever, that he MAXX actually have greater dynamic range, on the contrary. It is really not about flat vs. tilted response, it is about proper design and smooth XO/drivers integration. Something Wilson have not been able to master yet.

1 + 1 = 1 is the math the microprocessor is based on. Without the fact that 1 + 1 = 1 in the real world the personal computer could not exist. Derivation of computer logic equations relies on the fact that the sums of minterms are either 1 or 0.

I do want to address one final error in your analysis. The Q5 cannot produce significant output at 20 Hz. But it can attempt to do so because it has a relatively flat response all the way down to 10 Hz. Nothing could be worse for a speaker with 9 inch woofers in an acoustic suspension design than to attempt to produce subsonic notes in a small sealed cabinet. The volume of the MAXX cabinet is much larger than the Q5, its woofers are larger, and it has a very large port. The Q5 cannot compete with the MAXX at 20 Hz as far as what you will actually be able to hear. If you hit the Q5 with a hard 20 Hz note you will blow the woofers up because they will attempt to produce it flat because they have a flat response curve; the woofers simply don't have the excursion. The Thiel CS5 had a response curve like the Q5 and I went through four woofers.

On the other hand if you hit the MAXX3 with a hard 20 Hz note you will hear it albeit at a level much less than flat. Its woofers will be excursing like crazy but will take the punishment without distorsion or damage. I know because I have done it. It is amazing, the low frequency output of the MAXX3. It can produce an audible satisfying 18 Hz note and has more power and dynamics than a Krell MRS subwoofer. I did not trade my MRS for my Thor for any other reason than it could not keep up with my MAXX3.

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by Charles

1 + 1 = 1 is the math the microprocessor is based on. Without the fact that 1 + 1 = 1 in the real world the personal computer could not exist. Derivation of computer logic equations relies on the fact that the sums of minterms are either 1 or 0.

I do want to address one final error in your analysis. The Q5 cannot produce significant output at 20 Hz. But it can attempt to do so because it has a relatively flat response all the way down to 10 Hz. Nothing could be worse for a speaker with 9 inch woofers in an acoustic suspension design than to attempt to produce subsonic notes in a small sealed cabinet. The volume of the MAXX cabinet is much larger than the Q5, its woofers are larger, and it has a very large port. The Q5 cannot compete with the MAXX at 20 Hz as far as what you will actually be able to hear. If you hit the Q5 with a hard 20 Hz note you will blow the woofers up because they will attempt to produce it flat because they have a flat response curve; the woofers simply don't have the excursion. The Thiel CS5 had a response curve like the Q5 and I went through four woofers.

On the other hand if you hit the MAXX3 with a hard 20 Hz note you will hear it albeit at a level much less than flat. Its woofers will be excursing like crazy but will take the punishment without distorsion or damage. I know because I have done it. It is amazing, the low frequency output of the MAXX3. It can produce an audible satisfying 18 Hz note and has more power and dynamics than a Krell MRS subwoofer. I did not trade my MRS for my Thor for any other reason than it could not keep up with my MAXX3.

One day I'd love to own a set of Maxx 3s.

[NoahG]

Originally Posted by thesaint519

One day I'd love to own a set of Maxx 3s.

There's a pair listed on Agon for $20K.

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by NoahG

There's a pair listed on Agon for $20K.

WOW !! Fact is, they are way too big for my room. I can't imagine they'll be there for long, huh? Until I get a huge insurance settlement, hit the lottery, or become the beneficiary of an inheritance from a distant uncle or something, chances are, that dedicated listening/media room will never materialize . But, at least for now I can dream...

http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_maxx.shtml

[Ricjor1]

I've read this discussion and because of my recent experience I thought I would add my two cents. I recently sold my Sophia 3 and went on a mission to listen to as many speakers within my price range (20-30k) as I could. I listened to B&W, Magico, Rockport Mira 2, and Audio Physic. I wanted to listen to the Giya's, but based on the size of my room the dealer suggested the G2 @ 50K and that was out of my price range. I ended up purchasing Sasha's, because to my ears, including compared to Sophia 3s, they were by far the best sounding speaker. I hesitate to say @ 28K they are a value, but compared to what I listened to I honestly feel Sasha's are the best value in high-end. I don’t know how they measure compared to speakers that I listen to. In fact, I guess Sophia 3s measure better than Sasha’s, but Sasha’s are on a completely different level. I’m not talking just output, but naturalness, sound-staging, separation of instruments. I understand that there are no absolutes and everyone hears differently, with different priorities, but I conclude that measurements don’t always correlate to better sound.

[Lildebs888]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

I've read this discussion and because of my recent experience I thought I would add my two cents. I recently sold my Sophia 3 and went on a mission to listen to as many speakers within my price range (20-30k) as I could. I listened to B&W, Magico, Rockport Mira 2, and Audio Physic. I wanted to listen to the Giya's, but based on the size of my room the dealer suggested the G2 @ 50K and that was out of my price range. I ended up purchasing Sasha's, because to my ears, including compared to Sophia 3s, they were by far the best sounding speaker. I hesitate to say @ 28K they are a value, but compared to what I listened to I honestly feel Sasha's are the best value in high-end. I don’t know how they measure compared to speakers that I listen to. In fact, I guess Sophia 3s measure better than Sasha’s, but Sasha’s are on a completely different level. I’m not talking just output, but naturalness, sound-staging, separation of instruments. I understand that there are no absolutes and everyone hears differently, with different priorities, but I conclude that measurements don’t always correlate to better sound.

Great post, Ricjor1, especially knowing that you have had a lot of experience with Wilson: Sophia 2's, Sophia 3, and now Sasha's! When will you be receiving your Sasha's, or do you already have them? I would love to see a photo.

Debby

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

I've read this discussion and because of my recent experience I thought I would add my two cents. I recently sold my Sophia 3 and went on a mission to listen to as many speakers within my price range (20-30k) as I could. I listened to B&W, Magico, Rockport Mira 2, and Audio Physic. I wanted to listen to the Giya's, but based on the size of my room the dealer suggested the G2 @ 50K and that was out of my price range. I ended up purchasing Sasha's, because to my ears, including compared to Sophia 3s, they were by far the best sounding speaker. I hesitate to say @ 28K they are a value, but compared to what I listened to I honestly feel Sasha's are the best value in high-end. I don’t know how they measure compared to speakers that I listen to. In fact, I guess Sophia 3s measure better than Sasha’s, but Sasha’s are on a completely different level. I’m not talking just output, but naturalness, sound-staging, separation of instruments. I understand that there are no absolutes and everyone hears differently, with different priorities, but I conclude that measurements don’t always correlate to better sound.

I concur .

[jdandy]

It has been interesting to read these comments and see the level of rise that developed from the original post. After 22 pages and 217 posts, Wilson owners are still coming out of the woodwork in defense of their speaker choices.

[Ricjor1]

jdandy,

I'm certainly not trying to defend my speaker choice...I'm telling my experience. I should have added during my experience I listened to speakers that to my ears did some things better the Sasha’s, but overall my ears preferred Sasha’s. I don’t belittle individuals for the choices they make or try to justify my choices. I have always prefaced my input with there are NO ABSOLUTES IN AUDIO, ONLY PREFERENCES. I take this as a hobby and not life or death or right or wrong.

Debby,
I already have my Diamond Black Sasha’s…I was lucky to purchase a mint used pair from a friend.

[Lildebs888]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

jdandy,

I'm certainly not trying to defend my speaker choice...I'm telling my experience. I should have added during my experience I listened to speakers that to my ears did some things better the Sasha’s, but overall my ears preferred Sasha’s. I don’t belittle individuals for the choices they make or try to justify my choices. I have always prefaced my input with there are NO ABSOLUTES IN AUDIO, ONLY PREFERENCES. I take this as a hobby and not life or death or right or wrong.

Debby,
I already have my Diamond Black Sasha’s…I was lucky to purchase a mint used pair from a friend.

That's great! I would love to see a photo of them!