LYNGDORF RP1 in my McIntosh system.

[Jean-Marc jmajma]

Well, Jérôme came last sunday to install the Lyngdorf in my system, between the C1000P+T and the 1.2KWs.

We first placed the micro on its stand at my sweet spot,right in the middle of the sofa facing the Wilson Audio WP8. First calibration. Then again for 7 or 8 places in the room.

It took less than 30 mn to get over90% , cutoff over which the Lyngdorf says he has enough values.

And that's all, you are done: incredibly simple.

You can then remote control the lyngdorf and play with on/off, and/or the different preinstalled curves (Music 1 and 2, Relaxed, Soft, Open ,Open Air or neutral).A lot of possibilities.

But I only use Neutral focus , that means at the sweet spot.

Immediately, the very first impression is that you have engaged the loudness or cranked up the bass pot (do i have to recall that there is no loudness or bass/treble in C1000? it's a shame, I've always considered that at this price tag Mc should have put this option, may you use it or not. BTW, in the C2300 you even can memorize bass/treble/balance for each input!!!).

But very soon it was clear that the Lyngdorf's action is much more complex; in fact, on my favorite album (Diana Krall Live in Paris I know by heart, I was there the day they recorded, remember!), the Diana's voice becomes TRUE, it was flat and now Diana is singing here right in front of you, it's sooo real, incredible; every microdetail is better heard, microdynamics too, giving to the music LIFE; the bass are far better, deeper but much more musical with all kind of nuances; I'm not good at writing in english (or french) my emotions, but i can tell you that it's an INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE.

Before this, I always felt that voices (and only voices) were a little bit left in the soundstage; I thought I should have an audio/tympanogram or that something happened in my room, because of one WP8 in a corner and the other one not, or the window or what else could reflect/absorb this particular range of frequencies; and now , with the Lyngdorf, everything is at its place, voices perfectly centered and so on...

The global effect is subtle, but real;that's why it's so efficient; it seems it works on all the frequencies range from bass to treble.
I noticed too that there was perhaps something like a very very slight echo or reverb effect, or what I thought it was, but this surely gives deepness in the soundstage and much more liveness and presence.
At the time I had the C2200, I remember I always cranked a little up the bass pot, this confirms that my room is perhaps a little bit too clear (I thought it was the opposite!!!).

and now I can't imagine to put off this gear of my system; I already am searching where I can buy it. I'm not sure I'll give it back to Jérôme!

If I could resume in a word it would be that music takes a relief; saying that it was dull and it becomes shiny. I never could think before that what I heard could one day be that much better. I thought my system was almost at its best. It was a big mistake. It's a very long time that I had such enthusiasm for something. It really has dramatically improved my system ,a very big thank you Jérome.

Lyngdorf (or MEN220 certainly) is a MUST HAVE, when you try it you don't want to give it back. Trust me, it's fabulous!

Jean-Marc.

[j3brow]

There must be something to the Lyngdorf. Hopefully, the MEN220 will yield equally impressive results. With the MEN220, i believe you would gain access to bass and treble controls just like C2300 has. Best of both worlds!

[TommyC]

In my limited (~20 min) audition of the MEN220, I concur its usefulness. There is quite a difference with the bypass on and off.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by j3brow

There must be something to the Lyngdorf. Hopefully, the MEN220 will yield equally impressive results. With the MEN220, i believe you would gain access to bass and treble controls just like C2300 has. Best of both worlds!

I may be wrong here but it seems to me that the MEN220 will give access to bass and treble adjustments in a different way than what the c2300 gives with tone controls.
Men 220 uses EQ curves, memorized, as for the Lyngdorf.
Not simple 20 Hz and 20 kHz adjustments like the 2300.

[nsgarch]

Unless a user is strictly into digital sound, I'm baffled why a person would invest in expensive tube amps and/or preamps, turntables and/or other lovely analog sources and THEN stick an all-digital device in the chain?

The Lyngdorf RP-1 (and almost all room correction/EQ devices) do whatever they do in the DIGITAL DOMAIN, and contain not one, but TWO DAC's! One A >> D at the input and one D >> A at the output. So every source that goes into the preamp comes out of the speakers digitized!

And even if the only source(s) is/are digital, adding two more DAC's just to do room correction is just too much for me. And not only that, but the result, even for digital sound, will only be as good as the poorest performing DAC in the chain.

If the object is ROOM correction, then I say correct the room for heaven's sake - and save the system! Anyone who expects accessory devices like these can be inserted into an otherwise simple and brilliant system without sonic penalty is, in my ever so humble opinion, either mis-informed or kidding themselves.

Yes, it takes some effort (mostly on the learning side rather than on the money side) to understand how to flatten a room's frequency response by making some physical additions/modifications. But the results are more effective and comprehensive; for instance, standing waves cannot be removed electronically. If you want to do it yourself there are inexpensive sound pressure meters -- one of the most popular is from Radio Shack which includes a mic and you just plug it into your laptop after downloading some software -- one of the best is free! http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ If you want to 'have it done' get someone like Richard Bird (RIVAS) to do it -- or at least provide a consult.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by nsgarch

Unless a user is strictly into digital sound, I'm baffled why a person would invest in expensive tube amps and/or preamps, turntables and/or other lovely analog sources and THEN stick an all-digital device in the chain?

The Lyngdorf RP-1 (and almost all room correction/EQ devices) do whatever they do in the DIGITAL DOMAIN, and contain not one, but TWO DAC's! One A >> D at the input and one D >> A at the output. So every source that goes into the preamp comes out of the speakers digitized!

And even if the only source(s) is/are digital, adding two more DAC's just to do room correction is just too much for me. And not only that, but the result, even for digital sound, will only be as good as the poorest performing DAC in the chain.

If the object is ROOM CORRECTION, then I say correct the room for heaven's sake - and save the system!

Nsgarch, I have to say this is a very special day. For the very first time we can finally agree on something.

[jwc]

Serge.

Would you say the Bryston 10B unit you used for analog active XO robbed nothing from the signal chain? Such as soundstage?

The reason I ask is that I wanted to try tubes on the MF and HF of my XRT1K's with dual MC275's. Use MC1201's on the LF.

I too am concerned of digitization of the signal with the MEN although I have been eager to have one. Unlike most.....I really want a good quality XO from the MEN as first priority.....others are probably wanting the Room EQ the most.

I can't slam Room Equalization though as I've never heard it/tried it.

The MEN may be something I have to Demo before purchase...

jc

[Ron-C]

Room correction is not the same as room treatment. In room treatment you are dealing with controlling reverb and echo. Room Correction deals with the geometry of the room effecting the natural response of the speaker. MEN220 will remove the room induced peaks in your speaker's response which allows a much better stereo image. You are now also free to place speakers close to a wall and still have the same image as if the speakers were set out in the middle of the room.
As far as the digital conversion if you are a digiphobe MEN is not for you. MEN220 will maintain a very high level conversion of analog to digital and back again which will not effect your analog sources.When using the MEN220, If you hear an increase in echo or reverb this has to be in the recording but was masked by the room colorations of your speaker's output.

Thanks,
Ron-C

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jwc

Serge.

Would you say the Bryston 10B unit you used for analog active XO robbed nothing from the signal chain? Such as soundstage?

The reason I ask is that I wanted to try tubes on the MF and HF of my XRT1K's with dual MC275's. Use MC1201's on the LF.

I too am concerned of digitization of the signal with the MEN although I have been eager to have one. Unlike most.....I really want a good quality XO from the MEN as first priority.....others are probably wanting the Room EQ the most.

I can't slam Room Equalization though as I've never heard it/tried it.

The MEN may be something I have to Demo before purchase...

jc

Like I mentioned in another post, the 10B did not disappoint and I did not notice any significant drawbacks to using it at all. Keep in mind, I was only using it in a very limited band of frequency and having it simply divide the signal. Whatever phase shift it did introduce, the one side was mostly dialed out by the subs themselves and the other side was sent to the speakers but as a whole band from 80Hz on up to 20Khz. The Bryston was also designed and built as an audiophile grade component, with no integrated circuits in the path. The circuitry handling the signal is all ultra linear and discrete for highest signal purity. Big difference between the Bryston unit and a unit such as MEN220/Lyngdorf that has much, much more going on inside.

I am not slamming MEN220/Lyngdorf, TacT or Parc, I've looked into it, I've talked to people who tried them and opinions vary with majority leaning toward not using them. Those that had drastic improvements with terrible sounding rooms were happier with them. I've come to the conclusion that my own path will start out with acoustic treatments.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Ron-C

Room correction is not the same as room treatment. In room treatment you are dealing with controlling reverb and echo. Room Correction deals with the geometry of the room effecting the natural response of the speaker. MEN220 will remove the room induced peaks in your speaker's response which allows a much better stereo image. You are now also free to place speakers close to a wall and still have the same image as if the speakers were set out in the middle of the room.
As far as the digital conversion if you are a digiphobe MEN is not for you. MEN220 will maintain a very high level conversion of analog to digital and back again which will not effect your analog sources.When using the MEN220, If you hear an increase in echo or reverb this has to be in the recording but was masked by the room colorations of your speaker's output.

Thanks,
Ron-C

Ron,

You could add that the MEN 220 is extremely transparent.
Nsgarch, I always respect your opinions but here you're just wrong.
Try one in your system and you'll see that you can't hear any digital artefact ith it.
I am a LP guy. And my LPs still perfectly sound like LPs with the Lyngdorf.
It is just truly amazing how clear and transparent it can be.