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  #1  
Old 02-19-2018, 02:14 AM
NeroNepolus81 NeroNepolus81 is offline
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Default Sonus Faber Serafino

Hey Guys

what do you think. Is it Possible to drive a Serafino with a Accuphase E 650 ?

In a German Hifi Test Magazin they talk about the Serafinos need a little bit more Power to drive. So the E 650 has 60 Watt on 4 ohm. Is this enough. What do you think ?
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:23 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeroNepolus81 View Post
Hey Guys

what do you think. Is it Possible to drive a Serafino with a Accuphase E 650 ?

In a German Hifi Test Magazin they talk about the Serafinos need a little bit more Power to drive. So the E 650 has 60 Watt on 4 ohm. Is this enough. What do you think ?
Depends on many parameters. How loud you want to listen, how close or far is the listening position, the type of music you listen to. The recommended power for that speaker is 80W – 350W, without clipping. You can get a rough idea by plugging in some parameters in this calculator. 85dB is comfortable listening level for most but not loud. If you need or like to listen with peaks over 95dB you will need a much more powerful amp. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:44 PM
Bahg Bahg is offline
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Would a McIntosh MA 9000 be enough to power the Serafino speaker and crank it up to listen to Whole Lotta Love by Zeppelin.
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:13 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Would a McIntosh MA 9000 be enough to power the Serafino speaker and crank it up to listen to Whole Lotta Love by Zeppelin.
Yep, at 90dB efficiency of the Serafino, the MA9000 is more than adequate to listen far beyond the reasonable loudness levels. Not that I suggest anyone doing that if they value their ears.
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:35 AM
bigblue bigblue is offline
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Using the calculator is a good indication. In theory I would be able to drive my Futuras to 95dB with only 6W. But you don't want to be maxing out any amp as you are adding distortion the closer you get to its limit. That is one of the reasons people sometimes have amps with WAY more power that they ever need.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:23 PM
Bahg Bahg is offline
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Yep, at 90dB efficiency of the Serafino, the MA9000 is more than adequate to listen far beyond the reasonable loudness levels. Not that I suggest anyone doing that if they value their ears.

Thanks for the info. Because I like the Serafino, but I was thinking I was going to have to get the MC462 to power them.
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:49 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Thanks for the info. Because I like the Serafino, but I was thinking I was going to have to get the MC462 to power them.
It's really up to you but 300w of the MA9000 is plenty for a 90dB efficient speaker. Just for a comparison and perhaps my case is not the norm but.... I usually listen to a 40w Triode tube amplifier with speakers that are only 86dB efficient and my room is 26x30 with the listening position approximately 10 feet away from speakers which themselves are not reinforced by near wall placement. Do I ever run into a problem? Nope... My speakers are more or less tube friendly so with 85dB typical listening sessions with peaks somewhere around 92dB my tube amp is able to handle it. At most I switch to Ultralinear mode to step up to 70w to listen to some rock at 90dB to 98dB peaks when I am not in the listening spot critically listening. Your situation will have gobs more power in reserve. Enjoy and treat your ears well, anything over 100dB will destroy your hearing over time!

Last edited by PHC1; 08-08-2018 at 04:18 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2019, 09:34 PM
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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I listened to the Sonus Faber Serafino Tradition for about 3 hours, in 3 different systems:

System 1
McIntosh 452 solid state amp (450 watts)
McIntosh C1100 preamp
McIntosh SACD/CD transport
Cables: Cardas Clear

System 2
McIntosh 275 tube amp (75 watts)
McIntosh C1100 preamp
McIntosh SACD/CD transport
Cables: Cardas Clear

System 3
Audio Research ref 150 SE tube amp (150 watts)
Audio Research LS28 preamp
McIntosh SACD/CD transport
Cables: Cardas Clear

I first listened to System 1. I listened to a few tracks. Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" Analogue Productions SACD was the first. What was immediate apparent is the superb rhythm, pacing and timing... Very fast, dynamic, fantastic imaging and instrument separation. The sound was crisp, very pleasing. Next, I listened to the Shine soundtrack, specifically the last track on the CD - Nulla in Mundo Pax Sincera. This track was not as well recorded as the Oscar Peterson, so the flaws were more readily apparent. I hear some tape hiss, but the orchestra still sounded very pleasing. However, when the female vocals kicked in on this track, it more recessed and lean, less "midrange" compared to older model Sonus Faber speakers I have heard in the past. The highs were very extended and bass could go really deep. Next, I played Damien Rice' O cd, and concentrated on track 1, "Delicate." This track is very well recorded. With the McIntosh solid state amp, I could hear things I've never heard before - the decay on each guitar pluck was amazing, the violin bow moving with each stroke, and almost each breath that Damien Rice would take when singing. However, the presentation was very forward, and could tell that despite all those amazing attributes noted above, the sound was getting fatiguing for my tastes. The sound was too forward and in your face. While a spectacular presentation for a demo, I knew it was not conducive for long-term listening. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was "harsh" sounding, but instead of a few rows back in a symphony hall, it sounded like you were in row 1 - very forward and too much of a good thing. It seemed that is almost overproduced textures and decays (whether it was intended on the recording or not) and took my attention away from the overall song and focused my attention too much on all the details. Too much resolution if you will.

On to System 2 with the McIntosh 275 amp. I was hesitant with only 75 watts, but this system was the clear winner of the three I tried. It rounded off enough of those fatiguing issues I referenced above, and added more texture and tonal color to the midrange. Musicality and smoothness were the highlights. I immediately relistened to the Oscar Peterson track, and still had all the snap and fantastic imaging separation, but everything was warmed up a bit, which these Serafinos definitely need. I then re-listened to the Damien Rice track, and though it has less decay of each note and less transparency and dynamics, the overall presentation was my cup of tea. Don't get me wrong, it still had a lot of it, but was more balanced overall and the combination is one that I could easily live with in my home for the long haul. So I started throwing more CDs - the very poorly recording Oasis "Morning Glory" still sounded muddy and poorly recorded. The one thing about these newer Sonus Faber lines is they really reveal the flaws in the recording. Unless previous Sonus Faber where they make poor recordings sound better, these Serafinos reveal exactly the quality of the recording. So I threw on the Cranberries, Harry Connick Jr "Blue Light Red Light," Ella Fitzgerald, Allison Krauss, Frank Sinatra, and song after song, the 275 amp handled everything well. The vocals really shined, both male and female, and made you want to listen for hours - grab a drink or cup of coffee and settle in for long term listening. The beauty of the female vocals was especially worth noting. Ella and Allison Kraus were simply breathtaking... which brings me to...

System 3. The Audio Research. Surprisingly, this was the worst of the 3 I heard. Immediately, re-listening to the same tracks as above, the sound was very lean, cold, sterile, and flat. Still very detailed, but no musicality. It did not have the level of detail as system 1, and had no tonal color, textured, and beauty of system 2. The salesman in the store looked at me in disbelief, and asked me if I was hearing the same thing he was hearing. We both couldn't believe how flat the sound was.


In comparison to older Sonus Faber models, these Serafinos (and assuming the entire newer Tradition line - guarneri, amati, etc) are more resolving, more realistic (live presentation sounding), tighter bass, faster or better pacing/rhythm, and more extending highs. The are not as midrange focused. They are not as warm/rich and require careful attention to what amp/preamp combo you use. They are more temperamental in that respect to prior Sonus Faber. In the older lines, you almost couldn't make them sound bad. Any amp I paired with them, they always had a pleasing sound. Not so with these. They are much more of an amp-specific speaker, which can make it difficult for potential purchasers. It should be stated that the room I listened in was fairly large (about 24 feet by 18 feet). The speakers were above 6 feet from the back wall and a few feet from the side wall, and the room was well treated with acoustic panels. I listened to the speakers about 10 feet away.
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