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  #81  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:01 PM
Grit Grit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Tanner - Bryston View Post
Hi Folks,

Here's a little article I did on fully balanced circuits a while back.


Is Your System Out Of Balance

One question which keeps coming up over and over is the controversy regarding audio components being "fully balanced" versus what is sometimes referred to as "balanced converting to single ended" at the input of the electronic component (preamp, electronic crossover, amplifier etc).

The correct term for this balanced converting to single ended is more accurately referred to as "differential amplifier balancing" Popular mythology has seen fit to 'bless' the concept of 'fully-balanced' (meaning of course, two completely separate signal paths through a component, with its attendant doubling of parts cost and complexity, and halving of reliability). This approach completely misses the place, which is, of course too eliminate hum and noise picked up by the audio cables feeding the component.

The reason for this is that a differential amplifier rejects any common-mode noise which appears at its input, by a factor equal to its common-mode rejection ratio, (normally over 1000:1). A 'fully-balanced' circuit has a common-mode rejection ratio of precisely zero, since all signal, common-mode or not, is simply amplified and passed along via the two signal paths. It then remains up to the following component to attempt to reject that amplified noise, if it has a differential amplifier.

Thus, fully-balanced circuitry is subject to passing along any noise which might be picked up on all the cables. Then it hits the final component in the system, usually the power amp, where the differential amplifier at its input is left to deal with the sum total of the common mode noise in the signal path, (multiplied by all the gain in the system). I don't think this is an ideal scenario. If each component, (source, preamp, electronic crossover, power amp), had its own differential amplifier input, it would cancel any common-mode noise which appeared ahead of it, rather than amplifying it.

All the above simply points out that what has been called fully balanced circuitry has a host of disadvantages from cost to noise overload to complexity and reduction in reliability. It has no useful advantages in the digital or analog signal chain beyond the mic preamp.

Also remember the above supports no need for ‘Fully Balanced’ from a performance standpoint. The 7B, 14B and 28B's are fully balanced because they are designed as ‘SERIES’ amplifiers not because they have a performance advantage.

james
Hey James,

If I interpreted this correctly, you'd recommend single-ended cabling, at least for Bryston components?
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  #82  
Old 11-03-2018, 02:26 AM
James Tanner - Bryston James Tanner - Bryston is online now
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Hi

No actually I recommend Balanced cables if you can because cables are antennas and cancelling noise pickup (RF etc.) in the cables is important to having a very low noise floor in your system.

Our gear now can attain noise floors of over 120dB.

james
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  #83  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:43 PM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
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Just installed a new pair of WW Eclispe 8 Silver XLR between the BP-25 & 4B-ST to replace a pair of Eclipse 7 Gold RCA and the XLR are immediately better to my ears (dammit - more 8 XLRs needed ).
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  #84  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:33 AM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
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Ivan has provided the tracking # for my BP-17│. Should be in the system next Wed.
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Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17│, 4B-ST & BHA-1 Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano 7 & 8
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  #85  
Old 11-30-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2 View Post
Just installed a new pair of WW Eclispe 8 Silver XLR between the BP-25 & 4B-ST to replace a pair of Eclipse 7 Gold RCA and the XLR are immediately better to my ears (dammit - more 8 XLRs needed ).
Let me know
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Reference System: ACCUPHASE A250 AMPS, C3850 PRE-AMP, DP950 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC950 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-58 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
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Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G01X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, STILLPOINTS, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) ASC ACOUSTIC PANELS & TRAPS, GIK PICTURE PANELS, PS AUDIO P10, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1 CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, FURUTECH SILVER ARROWS PHONO CABLE, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA PS8, RGPC 1200(2) STEVE BLINN CUSTOM RACK, ASC STUDIO TRAPS, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
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Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E-650 INTEGRATED, DP750 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3, CANTON REF K5, SILENZIO, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, WIREWORLD GOLD CABLES
Bryston Active System: BP26 PRE-AMP, MPS2 POWER SUPPLY, BAX-1 CROSSOVER, BDA-3 DAC, BDP-3 PLAYER, BCD-3 CD PLAYER, BIT15(2), MODEL T ACTIVE SPEAKERS, 21B3 CUBED AMPS, SILENZIO, TARGET RACK, WIREWORLD SILVER CABLES
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  #86  
Old 12-04-2018, 08:22 AM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
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BP-17│ arrived in good shape yesterday evening and playing happily in my system. Immediate addition of more "air" (? clarity? - not sure of the correct reviewer description) and detail. Have let run overnight and will give a proper listen this morning after the wife leaves for work (someone has to pay for my excesses ).

Have just run a few SACDs thru and they are sublime. Great extension on the bottom. Really makes the Canton speakers shine. Clear delineation between SACD & redbook. So good that I've ordered a couple more SACDs.
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Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17│, 4B-ST & BHA-1 Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano 7 & 8

Last edited by Formerly YB-2; 12-04-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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  #87  
Old 12-04-2018, 10:57 PM
btn2803 btn2803 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2 View Post
Just installed a new pair of WW Eclispe 8 Silver XLR between the BP-25 & 4B-ST to replace a pair of Eclipse 7 Gold RCA and the XLR are immediately better to my ears (dammit - more 8 XLRs needed ).
I also ordered pair of XLR Eclipse 8 Silver from Ivan and installed between the Oppo 205 and surround processor, to replace a generic XLR one. Wow! What a difference it makes...I am so impressed that I have just ordered another pair to connect the pre-amp to amps. Should receive tomorrow. Can't wait.
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Sources: PSA Directstream DAC; Oppo UDP-205; JVC DLA-RS20; Stewart StudioTek Power & Cables: Taralabs bi-wire; WW XLR Silver Eclipse 8; WW Silver Starlight 7 Coax; Denali 6000T and Shunyata Alpha NR C19 (soon), Shunyata Delta NR and EF
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  #88  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:39 AM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
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Moved from the WW 8 Silver XLR to a pair of WW 7 Platinum and another noticeable step up. The improvement in clarity & detail (and 'air'?) from the Silver to the Platinum was immediately noticeable, as was the improvement in all when moving from the BP-25 to BP-17│. Could a 4B│ be in my system's future?
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Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17│, 4B-ST & BHA-1 Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano 7 & 8
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  #89  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:44 PM
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I may be following the same path as you Glenn. Looking forward to your impressions of the BP-17│. Especially as how it relates to Mcintosh Tube gear that you've owned in the past

Last edited by ruffoc; 12-05-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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  #90  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:24 PM
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
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The comparison to the C28, C29, C38 & C2200 I've owned is quite straight-forward. They all are of the "older" generation sound from McIntosh, which I describe as being "warm". Have not spent any time listening to anything newer than the C2200, so not sure about their newer preamps other than to say that I understand they are more "modern" sounding. In contrast, I've always found Bryston gear to be fast & detailed while at the same time giving up nothing in terms of sounding extended at both ends with a great sound stage. It has been several years since I've had a McIntosh preamp, so any comparison is strictly from memory in a totally different system (completely so, other than tuner). It is easy for me to say I am very much enjoying the BP-17│ and it providing the sound I prefer. The detail on the redbook files I'm currently listening to (Sandy Denny - may she RIP) is truly excellent. The background quietness is just outstanding.
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Audeze LCD-3 Bryston BP-17│, 4B-ST & BHA-1 Canton Reference 9K Clearaudio SM Pro RCM Focal Clear Oppo 203 Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk Sennheiser HD650 SurgeX XR-315 VPI Capital Scout, JMW9Sig w/Lyra Kleos, Ortofon K-b & 2M Blk, AT33R & AT150Ti Woo WA6 Gen 1 WW Eclipse Pt, Au, Ag, Mini, Starlight & Nano 7 & 8
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