|
Cables Galore Speaker cables, Interconnects & Power cords |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
A dilemma with 35' interconnects
Over the past year, I have invested a lot of money in updating and upgrading my audio system, particularly in cabling and power conditioning. And then this morning I had one of those OMG! moments.
My two primary amplifiers (I have a 7.4 home theater system) are located approximately 35 feet from my preamplifier. I am currently using Canare L-4E6S cable terminated with Neutrik XLR connectors as the interconnects between my Theta Casablanca IV preamp and my Krell FPB 200c and 250m amplifiers. (For those who are interested, here is the manufacturer's description of this cable: http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDis...oductItemID=53). I am not at all dissatisfied with the performance of my audio system; in fact, I'd say most of the music I play through it sounds pretty damn good. And yet, I wonder whether these interconnects represent its weak link. Given the length of cables needed to do an A/B comparison, I cannot borrow a more audiophile set of cables (I'd need three) from a dealer. Moreover, the likely cost of such an upgrade would be many thousands of dollars, which is money that would be irresponsible to spend given my already somewhat depleted financial resources. Thoughts/recommendations anyone?
__________________
Jonathan "Do not go quietly into that good night, . . . Rage, rage against the dying of the light." Main System: Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor; Wadia 8 CD transport and Digimaster DDC 2000 DAC (w/all updates); Theta Compli CD transport; Oppo UDP-203 disc player; Lumin T2 music server/DAC; Roon Nucleus+ core (w/Teddy Pardo LPS); SOTA Sapphire turntable (w/ Premier FT3 arm and Hana SL cartridge); SugarCube SC-2 non-destructive "click and pop" removal device; PS Audio Stellar phono preamp; Magnum Dynalab MD-102 FM tuner (w/MD-205 Signal Sleuth FM antenna amplifier and ST-2 FM antenna); McIntosh MC 611 (3), Krell FPB 200C, and KAV-250a power amplifiers; Revel Ultima Studio (2 - L&R), Voice (1 - center), and Embrace (2 sides and 2 surrounds) speakers; SVS PB-16 Ultra (2) and 3000 Micro (2) powered subwoofers; WireWorld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables; various Kimber Kable, MIT, Shunyata, and WireWorld interconnects; Shunyata Denali 2000/T (2), Denali 6000/S, Hydra [original], Hydra 2, and Venom PS10 power conditioners; various Shunyata Delta, Venom, PowerSnake, and Sidewinder power cords, and Venom Defenders (2); Richard Gray's Power Company Substation and 400 Pro; Luxul AGS-1024 Ethernet switch; Sound Anchor amplifier stand; VTI (2) and Billy Bags (4) equipment racks. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Jonathan.......
__________________
Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I have the same cables that you have. The ones I have I purchased from BJC. They are about 20 feet long and work just fine. I personally don't think that the extra 15' will make any audible difference. So since you asked for thoughts/recommendations, that would be: don't be irresponsible and enjoy what you already have. [emoji16] |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
That’s good advice from Dan and nicoff
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
MY suggestion is to make a second same sort set of the interconnects. And add a pair of splitter XLR at each end. So you basically are running TWO SETS to each connection. This may sound crazy, but there are a group of folks who SWEAR by this method of improving performance.
The only problem is the splitter trios. Making them yourself? Basic XLR for a few bucks are great, and easy to work with, soldering up as set to split the out signal to two with only the shortest (have to be about eight inches total wire pre-construction to let the XLR bodies fit back off the connector while making them. Then same thing except two into one XLR at the amp end. I know it seems it would not mean anything... But read about it. If you find the setup works you could just have or do yourself, two sets of WIRES to the same XLR you now use thus avoiding the spitters completely. Or, just take the leap and add the second set of wires to one set of your current XLR Google ""Doug Schroeder Method, Double ic"" to find some discussions... and think it over. Making one set to try might be worth the bother. If the one set helps.. Then you can do the rest. I spent $3,200 for one pair of seven meter IC.. so I can understand your frustration. I have myself not used the Schroeder method. but from other experience, I can see how doubling up can work to enhance the performance of a long set of cables. I think this might help you out. Last edited by Beet Farmer; 07-21-2019 at 11:00 AM. |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
A dilemma with 35' interconnects
The Canare L-4E6 is a star balanced 4 conductor mic cable. It has relatively high conductor to conductor capacitance of 150 pf/m.
Another option is to use a lower capacitance two conductor cable. I use Audio Technica AT 8300 AT which has a conductor to conductor capacitance of 35 pf/m. Both cables use polyethylene insulation and stranded copper conductors. After that you will be into specialty cables using other conductor and insulator materials like silver, silver plated copper, PE, and PFTE. Who knows if there will be a difference is sound quality? Not for me to say as I haven’t tested any of it.
__________________
Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
An inexpensive quality cable option is Belden 1800F.
Capacitance info from BJC — "Capacitance contributes to high-frequency rolloff, so the lower the capacitance of the cable, the flatter the frequency response in any given application (how flat will depend on the device impedances as well as the capacitance, so it's not possible to generate a one-size-fits-all frequency response chart; but in every case, the lower the capacitance, the flatter that curve will be). Capacitance, like many cable attributes, is a per-foot characteristic; while high capacitance won't ordinarily make a significant difference in short runs, it becomes an increasing problem with longer runs." Belden 1800F Ron
__________________
Ron Processor: McIntosh MX170, Amp: Legacy Audio i-V7, Digital: Benchmark DAC3B, Roon Music Player, Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV 4K, Fire TV Stick 4K Max, Analog: Gold Note Pianosa Turntable, Gold Note PH-10 Phono Preamplifier, Donatello MC Cartridge, Speakers: Legacy Audio Signature SE Natural Sapele Pommele, Silverscreen HD Center, JL Audio e112-Gloss Sub |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Jonathan... WW Solstice 8 XLR’s will outperform anything you can make. With my discount, it may also cost less than DIY.
Even for a pair at 35’ and that’s a fact.
__________________
Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Do high end cable manufacturers list full technical specifications of there wires? I can't seem to find that info easily.
I notice an emphasis on the outer insulation materials, geometrics and fancy proprietary trademark names and letters. Ron
__________________
Ron Processor: McIntosh MX170, Amp: Legacy Audio i-V7, Digital: Benchmark DAC3B, Roon Music Player, Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV 4K, Fire TV Stick 4K Max, Analog: Gold Note Pianosa Turntable, Gold Note PH-10 Phono Preamplifier, Donatello MC Cartridge, Speakers: Legacy Audio Signature SE Natural Sapele Pommele, Silverscreen HD Center, JL Audio e112-Gloss Sub Last edited by Poppyhome; 07-21-2019 at 06:40 PM. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Good advice here. One thing to pay attention to, given the high capacitance of the Canare cable, is the input impedance of the amplifier at the other end. If it is a typical ~50K Ohms, then the cable-amp roll-off frequency could be as low as 2 kHz.
The Canare (and Mogami) microphone cables excel at noise rejection, but are intended for a 1K Ohm microphone preamp, so a roll-off above 100 kHz, at 35 feet. Whether this is important in your system depends also on the output impedance of the pre-amp - if it is low, there won't be much or any concern. A low capacitance 'digital' cable (meaning controlled impedance at much higher frequencies, well above audio) might (maybe) make a difference. The above mentioned Belden and Audio Technica look like good choices. Wireworld is likely also low capacitance, based on its construction. BJC offers the Belden 1800F.
__________________
Main - Roon on Synology/Sonos Port/SoTM Neo endpoints; Chord Qutest, Bryston BP-17 cubed with phono option; EAT C-sharp with Ortofon Bronze MM, Bryston cubed Amplifier; Revel F126Be on custom Atocha stands; interconnects by WireWorld, furniture by Atocha Design 'Phones Audeze LCD-3, Bryston BHA-1; Office: Sonos/Roon; OPPO HA-1, Naim NAP100 and PSB Mini-C. Media Room:, Samsung QLED QN90 series, Sonos, OPPO 205, ATI N-core driving KEF LS-50's with REL subs; furniture by Glassisimo; Kids - U-turn for vinyl, Sonos Play5; Summer Shack - Sonos, vintage Pioneer, Dynaudio Special 40's. Last edited by clpetersen; 07-23-2019 at 09:38 AM. |
|
|
Audio Aficionado Sponsors | |