Burmester 911MK3

[jdebonth]

Elbroth, we are 100% on the same page. It's good to read that someone with the experience of such an incredible array of preamps shares the same belief.

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by Elberoth

And BTW - darTZeel doesn't sound soft. There is no artificial rounding of the leading edge. The amp sounds very smooth, fluid and relaxed, but at the same time, it is very alive, with microdynamics that will challenge the best low powered SET amps (and all SS amps I'm aware of).

There is some softening effect that you describe when you pair the Dart amp with the Dart NHB-18NS preamp. I have a theory that it is the sound signature of the light-dependent resistor devices that are used to control gain in that preamp.

To be clear, I have not heard the DarTZeel amp, although I live close to him, so probably should have. But with my speakers, source, and indeed, room, your description of the DarTZeel in your system mirrors how the Burmester 911Mk3 sounds in mine. Which is why I suggested that if I swapped out the 911 in my system for the Dart amp, I may well find it too soft. Just a commentary on system synergy, no more than that.

Funnily enough, the best performance I have got from the 911 is using it with the Burmester 088 preamp - in terms of resolution and micro dynamics. But I am still considering whether these attributes are worth the considerable price of entry, and the 088 is still not run in. After all, for the same price I could use a second 911 instead, which many suggest makes a big gain. But I have multiple sources, and need a preamp

[jdebonth]

Glisse, what does the rest of your system look like?

[joeinid]

Can anyone offer any insight on how a Dartzeel NHB-108 amp will perform with a Burmester 077 preamp?

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by Glisse

After all, for the same price I could use a second 911 instead, which many suggest makes a big gain. But I have multiple sources, and need a preamp

This is a very good point. Not many ppl take into account, that the money spent on an expensive preamp, could otherwise be spend upgrading other components in your system. In case of Burmester, 077 preamp can buy you another 911 to be used as monos !

If you have more sources or a phono, then you are clearly handicapped. There are not many source components, that offer anolog preamp inputs and switching. Audio Aero La Source and La Fontain are the two players that spring to mind.

You may also try one of the passive preamps. I would strongly recommend you to try Music First Audio Reference passive preamplifier. This is, by far, the single most transparent preamp I'm aware of. It is much better than the simple, MFA passives with copper transformers (now sold as 'Classic' ).

Music First Audio : : Reference Preamplifier

I have a friend, who went through an even longer list of expensive preamps that I did, and he ended getting MFA Reference. It is expensive though ... but at least offers input switching and remote control.

His system consists of Accuphase former top of the range 800/801 CDT/DAC combo to Hovland Stratos monos.

[jdebonth]

Joe, you would need to look up the impedance values but I am sure there would be no issues, the input impedance of the dart is likely much higher than that of the 911.

Perhaps Elbroth can provide some insight as I think it's his NHB-108 you are considering buying? (I recognised his listening room from the listening on audio-markt.de and the various pics he posted up here earlier).

[joeinid]

Input impedances Dartzeel NHB-108

Version A:

RCA: > 30 kOhms, 5 Hz to 200 kHz.
BNC: 50 ±1 Ohms, 1 Hz to 1 MHz.

Version B:
XLR: > 100 kOhms bet. Pin 1 and 2 (hot leg and ground).
XLR: > 13 kOhms bet. Pin 1 and 3 (cold leg and ground).
33 kOhms bet. Pin 1 and 2.
33 kOhms bet. Pin 1 and 3.

I can't find the values for the 077. It's not listed in the owners manual.

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by jdebonth

Perhaps Elbroth can provide some insight as I think it's his NHB-108 you are considering buying? (I recognised his listening room from the listening on audio-markt.de and the various pics he posted up here earlier).

Joe was considering buying an amp that belongs to a friend of mine. He has the Dart 18NS pre and TWO Model One power amps, that he used in vertical bi-amp config. Now since he is getting Wilson Maxx 3 speakers, which cannot be bi-amped (single pair of terminals), one of the amps is for sale.

I think that Dart would work with the 077, no problems at all. Dart input impedance is 30k Ohms, so it is fairly easy to drive.

But if you think about getting the Dart, I would rather try the MFA Reference preamp I sugested earlier. It is more transparent than the Dart 18NS preamp, and I'm almost certain (although I haven't heard one in my system !) that it is also more transparent than the Burmester 077.

[Anatta]

Originally Posted by Glisse

...in my case, I chose the speakers first, which are SF Amati Futura, and then the amp which could best drive them the way I wanted, in my room. Which was the Burmester 911.

Glisse, what other amps did you try with the Futuras before settling on the Burmester?

[Anatta]

jdebonth, do you know how much digital attenuation you use with the Medea? Did you fine tuned it with the front trim pots so that you use as little digital attenuation as possible?

"The output level is set via the "high / low" switch on the backpanel and via the trim potentiometers on the frontpanel. For output levels between +15dBu and +27 dBu symmetrical (or +9dBu and +21dBu asymmetrical) set the switch to "high". For all other levels set it to "low". These output level figures are reached for 0dBFS at the input of the DAC1.

The factory preset of the output levels is for 0dBu asymmetrical (or +6dBu symmetrical)."

+6dBu means 1.54V RMS and the 911 has a sensitivity of 0.67V; you should lower the output from the front trim pots even further so that it doesn't put more than 0.5V; this way you'll use less digital attenuation and you won't clip the amp because it won't receive enough voltage from the Medea even with no attenuation.