#11
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Well, I must have lots of music with deep bass. In all reality, the speaker's response in the room is never linear and the subs help to fill out the dips along the way. The subs also help recreate the pressurization of the acoustical space on the recordings from the instruments. Don't forget that instruments don't just start and stop at their resonant frequency, there is always harmonic content present that goes way below, just not at the same amplitude. If you strike a triangle for example, it will "ramp up" from the very bottom to the resonant frequency very quickly, that low level, low frequency information adds up to the "pressurization" of the room which subs are very good at recreating since you are not -6dB or -9dB at 20Hz like most speakers out there, even though their makers will have you believe they do 20Hz.
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#12
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Subs in my case are at best only a marginal improvement. From a sonic point of view, my money would be better spent on a source/component upgrade in my opinion. Speakers rank 4th in order of importance in 2 channel audio- source ,preamp,& amp, all take priority over speakers.
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#13
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I love to listen to organ, especially the Hammond B3 on good blues music, and jazz recordings. The peddle bass on these organs routinely make use of the octave below 55Hz. That being said, you don't have to listen to organ to need the octave below 55Hz. There are plenty of notes on the piano keyboard below 55 Hz, eleven more notes to be exact. There is plenty of action under 47 Hz with acoustic double bass, bass peddle drum, and all kinds of room harmonics and reverberations that add impact and dimension to an audio performance. There are many recordings that use synth bass that goes into the lowest octave. Speakers that roll off at 55 Hz or even 47 Hz are not full range speakers, although they are close if they truly go there and are flat at those lowest claimed frequencies. Most are not. These speakers may very well please an owner, but there is more to be heard below those points. Subwoofers in a two channel audio system are not about home theater explosions and crashes, they are about recreating the full range of musical enjoyment that has been recorded.
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Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A |
#14
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#15
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I have to disagree with you here. I think that the order is: 1) speakers 2) amp (and how it works with the speakers) 3) source 4) pre-amp. I think many people still believe Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn in the '70's that source is King. I am not one of them. |
#16
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Wow, a controversial sub thread.
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES |
#17
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On the other hand, if you run a reference source through mass produced components and it will always sound better. A lot of speakers are,in my opinion, poorly made from the get go and make noise rather than music. I'm not sure what kind of sound that you expect to hear from a digital source- for me it needs to be very analog and natural sounding. I've found only one brand that can accomplish this for me. If it weren't for this particular brand I'd still be using vinyl playback as a main source and have only one system rather than 2. Last edited by gregswaim; 06-03-2009 at 05:39 PM. |
#18
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Dan and Serge
This is getting too technical for me, but I thought the second, third etc harmonics were always doubling of the fundamental tone or first harmonic. So even with Dan's example of the lowest piano key, the second harmonic would be a 56hz, then 112hz. |
#19
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Jim, that is the order I would have agreed with except when I came across the Ayre KX-R preamp, now I consider the preamp to be just as important as the speaker/amp synergy. The preamp can make or break the whole system since it can bottleneck the source upstream from it and not allow the amp/speakers to reproduce what's on the recording faithfully either.
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#20
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Yeah, besides maybe I do not like subs 'cause I am claustrophobic.
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