Vinyl Newbie In Need Of Enlightenment... Is this it?

[esteban]

I think that just like the tube journey was worth it in the end the TT one will pay off the same way.

Thank you! I really hope that ends up being the case.

[jdandy]

Esteban.......I understand the dilemma. It will work itself out one way or the other. It is good you have a dealer willing to make house calls, and refunds if you're not happy.

[esteban]

Looks like my dealer and I are getting together before the weekend. Besides a new preamp, he's bringing a second table as well, to try and isolate the issue: the Pro-Ject Xpression III, which uses a MM cartridge and is half the price of the RPM 5.1SE, but DOES come with a dustcover! Perhaps this table is a better fit for my current needs?

I'll let you guys know once I have news.

[BlueChiaro]

Originally Posted by esteban

Looks like my dealer and I are getting together before the weekend. Besides a new preamp, he's bringing a second table as well, to try and isolate the issue: the Pro-Ject Xpression III, which uses a MM cartridge and is half the price of the RPM 5.1SE, but DOES come with a dustcover! Perhaps this table is a better fit for my current needs?

I'll let you guys know once I have news.

I'm sorry to see you in this situation, esteban. I'm hoping that is just around the corner for you. Being a complete vinyl newbie, myself, I have found joy in things as simple as the discovery of old LPs which expand my musical horizons. Of course, we all want things to sound great when we play them...some do, some don't, but I learn as I go. With the help of your dealer, and those, here, I hope you're able to get to the enjoyment phase, soon...best of luck!

Robert

[esteban]

Thanks, Robert! And big thank you's also to all who contributed to this thread.

[eddiel]

Definitely let us know how it all turns out.

To be honest you can't escape bad pressings if you want to go the vinyl route so be prepared for some bad pressings. But if every single one of those lps has the same issue it has to be set up (or very very bad luck!).

Hope it works out. Vinyl is a lot of fun.

[esteban]

Good news overall, folks.

My dealer stopped by last night with a Pro-Ject XPression III, a NAD P2 preamp and a few calibration tools. He was more than generous with his time and we actually spent quite a while adjusting things, swapping components in and out, and just plain listening. Using a digital gauge, he corrected the tracking force from around 1.68 (which is where I had it after I played -unsuccessfully- with the table myself) to an exact 1.85. A couple of minor things were also slightly tweaked, and finally he inspected the stylus and could not find anything wrong with it. The phono preamp at this time was still my Pro-Ject Phono Box II.

We listened to the albums I had the most problems with. Yes' "Far From Here" in particular, which we also compared to its digital counterpart. I could still hear the distortion I have been describing along this thread, but now it was more subdued, less "sharp". I pointed it out to him in the best way I could, but he seemed not to be bothered by it as much as I was. He attributed it to a combination of vinyl's noise-floor and the actual distortion inherent to the recording process being exposed in all its glory by the revealing, not-yet-broken-in and unforgiving Blue Point 2 Sumiko MC cartridge. He's a lot more used to the analog "sound" as well, even though he admitted that nowadays he's just perfectly happy with great digital (can't blame him, since he mostly uses dCS gear!)

It's also important to point out, I suppose, that my ears are very sensitive to high frequencies. Since I work in the TV business and am sometimes responsible for audio recording and monitoring, I can usually hear high-pitched and highly distorted but ultra-brief peaks in the sound. That is mostly what I was listening to here when I use the word "distortion". Sometimes I point out things such as the "beeping" noise from a delivery truck backing up across the street, while my wife can't hear a thing. So perhaps this "sensitivity" simply does not help in this particular case, but for whatever reason it rarely bothers me with digital.

We then swapped preamps. The NAD actually sounded worse than the Pro-Ject in my set-up. Its overall presentation was considerably more diffuse, less focused, and slightly less detailed. The sound was just "there", but I could not pinpoint the location of any of the instruments as well anymore. The distortion was also there, but that curiously did not change one-bit, perhaps because I knew exactly what to look for and WHEN to look for it. We went back to the Pro-Ject Phono Box and listened some more. My dealer pointed out that my cartridge definitely needed break-in and admitted it was still a little rough around the edges, but that things would start to improve quickly.

We swapped tables this time and used the XPression III. Beautiful table as well (WITH a dustcover for half the price, I might add ). This table was also brand new, out of the box. Its sound was "more hi-fi than hi-end", as Alberto once said to describe other components, with more emphasis on the bass (which was punchier but less defined), significantly less air on top, and a more compressed soundstage. But overall, a terrific bargain for the price. The distortion was still there, and that is what mattered most to me (in other words, I felt better for not having imagined things), even though it was not as apparent nor as "edgy" and harsh due to the less-revealing nature of the Sumiko Oyster cartridge.

The RM 5.1 SE went back in, and we listened some more. We played the Morricone record that I described as having a "rhythmic" distorted sound throughout the entire Side B. No question there, and my dealer confirmed my fears: this album was 100% defective. It was impossible to ignore it. The problem here, as I said before, is that I have at least 2 more records that exhibit similar problems, and they were all purchased brand new for more than $30. Not a great first impression.

That might be the "moral of the story" here. Combine the wrong preamp setting at first (as described a few pages ago), with some VTA and tracking force errors during the set-up process (all of them minuscule, but it seems such things matter not with vinyl: it's either DEAD-ON or it's WAY OFF), with a brand new stylus that will throw every pop, click and nasty detail in a recording mercilessly at your face, with the wrong batch of albums, including some VERY defective ones, plus one un-experienced, overworked, slightly melodramatic and susceptible listener (yes, that's me! ), and you have pretty much a recipe for disaster. At least temporarily.

My dealer gave me some helpful, real-world and, more importantly, honest tips as to what to expect from this whole thing. We also both agreed there was no comparison between both tables: the RM 5.1SE wins by a long margin, and he suggested I keep it for another month or so, so that I could get more used to the format. He will take it back and offered a full refund if by then I am still in doubt.

After he left, I listened for another 3 hours or so... Two Coltrane jazz records (perhaps the best quality albums I currently own in my limited collection) now sounded much, much better. Liquid, smooth, less fatiguing. Perhaps the stylus was finally opening up after a few hours of playing that night, perhaps I am fooling myself, perhaps I was too tired and my hearing not as acute... I will keep listening throughout the weekend and I'll share more observations or revelations, if they present themselves. In the meantime, this is where I stand as of right now. Relieved that I wasn't imagining things when it came to the defective pressings, feeling appreciative about not having to rush my decision, but, more importantly, much better predisposed to approach this brave new world...

[Hondo]

As I am very new to this site I have found the information here to be priceless. I just purchased a C50 and aMC452 and was trying to figure out the next step either a TT or MCD500. I am watching this thread closely as I have a small collection of vinyl but have been more exposed to the digital realm thru my son who is a Sound engineering grad. Thanks to all of those who contribute. I hope some day to repay with some useful information from my experience.

[Masterlu]

Hondo... Welcome!

[BlueChiaro]

As you say, good news, overall, esteban! I'm glad that you've identified some of the problems, and I hope your level of enjoyment continues to increase. Kudos to your dealer who surely seems to be doing right by you.