Really?

[jdandy]

There are investments, and there are liabilities.

With few exceptions it is not difficult to determine which category audio falls under.

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by Canonicus

From "The Absolute Sound Dec. 2017"
"Lyra’s final assembly is meticulous and personal. The work is carried out by a single man, the nearly mystical Yoshinori Mishima. Mishima-san adjusts and voices every single cartridge Lyra builds."

Yup, that's the guy. I think that, because they trust just one person to oversee every cartridge personally, that is the reason for the cost. There's no way to do an assembly line, like the MC2301 has.

That isn't an endorsement of the cost, just a possible explanation!

[Soundmig]

Dan, I see your point, and (as a former High-End dealer) I can honestly say that $$$ don't necessarily equate to what's inside. Some brands spend a lot on the inside and very little on marketing (marketing is a big "per unit" expense in audio) - like Audible Illusions for example. Other brands spend a lot on both materials/design/construction AND marketing - Nordost for example. I've been to many an audio show and the only cable manufacturer (to my recollection) that routinely has its own LARGE demonstration room is Nordost. That costs a lot to demo in a "salon" room at multiple shows per year. There are still others that spend little on what's inside and a LOT on marketing - but we won't get into those as most of us on AA stay away from those products.

Any pursuit of the ultimate gets very expensive. Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars cost about $25K per 1/4 mile to operate ($100K per mile). You can go really fast for a lot less money, but to reach the ultimate it takes a LOT of $$$ - as the specialty parts and equipment to get there require a lot of R&D spread over only a very few units. Not to mention the support system required to tweak and operate such a beast. So, in Audio - the very best requires a lot of R&D, tweaking and careful attention - the cost of which is spread over a very few units. As you seek to squeeze that last bit of performance out of an audio system - the cost necessarily goes up exponentially.

This is why I focus on getting 90% of the way there for the lowest cost possible. At the end of the day we're all held hostage by ??? recordings and less then optimal rooms. Careful component selection, careful application of acoustic treatments and doing things like building your own silver IC's with top quality terminations can get a person very close to "the best" without breaking the bank.

I think that Schiit is a company that is "disrupting" the paradigm in audio with unique marketing that gets them a LOT of free advertising and building really great products at very reasonable prices. To do so I believe that they take risks on building large quantities, hoping that the sales will come (because they have confidence in their design skill). I've not heard the Yiggy in my system yet, but I do own the Gungnir MB - and its darn good for just north of $1K. The Freya has been a real surprise to me as well - leaves little if anything to be desired (musically). Anyway .... I find the challenge in making lower cost systems sound great to be more fun than the ever increasing costs associated with acquiring "the best". To each his own of course, but its fun to see peoples faces when they hear my Schiit, Well-Tempered, Hafler (moded), Adcom, system with obviously home-built speakers. For the roughly $3K I have in it - it is Amazing!!! My sister (a french horn player) said "God, it sounds like your sitting in the concert hall". Enough said. At the end of the day its about what gives each of us enjoyment. I've played with a lot of super high-end gear and enjoyed it, but the challenge of approaching that level for pennies on the dollar - is what gives me the most enjoyment :-) . For now anyway.

[jdandy]

Mike.......

[bart]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Mike.......

+1!

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

bigblue.......I understand your comment and agree. The premise of my original point was not so much the actual cost of any particular audio component in general, but more along the lines of the disparity that exists in pricing between specific items. Pointing to my original example, the amount of engineering expertise, bill of materials, hand assembly expertise and manufacturing technology that goes into a high-end amplifier far exceeds that that goes into building a moving coil cartridge of any caliber, yet in my example both command a $12K price. It leaves me wondering if the actual value of the items have parallels that shed light on the price.

That's not to mention that one can buy an entry level CAR for that money or a mid level motorcycle. Surely there is a whole bunch more that goes into either than a cartridge or even a stereo amplifier.

[Antonmb]

There seems to be an inherent assumption in this discussion that the price of both the cartridge and the amp are cost-based. Many manufacturers practice cost-based pricing, i.e. add some margin to your cost to achieve a profit goal. However many companies practice value-based pricing: not marking up from cost, but pricing based on an assessment of what the product is worth to the customer. From the Harvard Business Review, “Value-based pricing is the method of setting a price by which a company calculates and tries to earn the differentiated worth of its product for a particular customer segment when compared to its competitor.” Is your product unique, or does it have some special attributes that make it particularly desirable? Then try to determine what your customers are willing to pay for the perceived value and set the price accordingly. I don’t know if McIntosh is using a cost-plus strategy, but I suspect Lyra is charging not just for the cost, but for the unique and desirable nature of the product: it is, after all, one of the best cartridges in the world.

[bart]

Tony, thank you for the economy lesson!

[BuffaloBill]

If you 'really' want to hear an audible difference in your audio system then you need these new Wireworld speaker cables. 3M length will cost you over $26,000.

https://www.thecableco.com/platinum-...able-pair.html

[crwilli]

I suspect Tony is absolutely correct in that all audio makers are trying to capture what they ‘hope’ will be the highest price the customer will pay. That would be what I would do for these products all marketed as ‘value adding’ eg SQ improving.

The balancing act must be found between how many units they want to sell and of course, what the competition allows them to charge.

While the customer chooses to pay a given price, they, or a certain % of them, might pay a higher price if there is no perceived competition.

On a side note and with NO specific knowledge of this..

This industry seems ripe for manufacturers to ‘talk’ to one another and agree on general pricing guidelines... It’s a pretty Chummy group that sees each other (company to company, if not personally) at many Audio shows around the world.