Shindo sings again

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by PHC1

What can I say, I guess my ears are in alignment with Shindo more than any other gear. It just sounds so damn right to me! The full and smooth bodied sound, rich with harmonic bloom, nuanced, delicate and finely textured... It just flows so naturally and I had a huge grin on my face! The ears hear what they hear and Shindo makes my ears very happy.

Bottom line, the $62k worth of ARC could not dethrone Shindo, the reigning champ of my "analog room".

Serge,

Thank you for sharing your experience. It's great to have someone like you who has great ears, writes very well and - most important - has had the exposure you've had to so many top notch components and can be objective about it all.

Since I know our audio tastes are very similar, I am not surprised with your bottom line. Reviews, opinions, posts full of excitement about the latest/greatest new "toy", etc., are interesting to read. But in the end, actions speak louder than words.

To me, the most valuable and reliable form of praise is to know the equipment that people keep for a long time (or go back to) and are reluctant to change.

Alberto

[two dot]

In my 30 years as a music lover and pseudo audiophile...

My Shindo gear is the only thing that leaves me wanting for nothing.

I no longer seek change.

[JohnThomas]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Jerome, you understand my situation.

The analog room with Tannoys sounds best with tubes and tubes keep the "spirit" and "theme" of my room, otherwise I may as well just listen to everything in my theater. I do not spin vinyl in my theater, at least not yet! I find vinyl listening goes hand in hand with tubes and high efficiency speakers, the result is a total analog nirvana! Very seductive and very rewarding.

Hey Serge what made you decide the Ayon cd player with the Shindo vs. using EAR cd player with the Shindo? I know exactly what you mean when you say your using only 1/8th of the power of the ARC amps. When I hooked up my second 911MK3 to Tannoys it didn't sound as good due to way too much power. I was blasting the room with the volume level on 4. But one 911 is the ticket. It does blow my mind how good Tannoy's sound on 8 watts of power. I wish Shindo made 300B integrated.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Alberto

Serge,

Thank you for sharing your experience. It's great to have someone like you who has great ears, writes very well and - most important - has had the exposure you've had to so many top notch components and can be objective about it all.

Since I know our audio tastes are very similar, I am not surprised with your bottom line. Reviews, opinions, posts full of excitement about the latest/greatest new "toy", etc., are interesting to read. But in the end, actions speak louder than words.

To me, the most valuable and reliable form of praise is to know the equipment that people keep for a long time (or go back to) and are reluctant to change.

Alberto

Alberto, since I have nothing to gain or anything to lose, I always say it like it is.

The ARC REF components are very impressive indeed even before the 600hr break in, no doubt about it. In my room, with my speakers and my taste, the Shindo is a better fit long term. Love the simplicity, the compactness of the whole system, the fact that it doesn't generate heat and it is so freakishly musical!

I needed to get a taste of the REF system and I made that happen before I can finally say that Shindo is it for my analog room!

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas

Hey Serge what made you decide the Ayon cd player with the Shindo vs. using EAR cd player with the Shindo? I know exactly what you mean when you say your using only 1/8th of the power of the ARC amps. When I hooked up my second 911MK3 to Tannoys it didn't sound as good due to way too much power. I was blasting the room with the volume level on 4. But one 911 is the ticket. It does blow my mind how good Tannoy's sound on 8 watts of power. I wish Shindo made 300B integrated.

John, I found the EAR cd to be even more beneficial in my Bryston/Sonus Faber room. The Shindo system is less sensitive to the differences between the Ayon and EAR. Either player is extremely musical, difference being two or three lumps of analog sounding digital sugar! The EAR is the less extraverted, smooth as butter CDP where as the Ayon is more about the midrange clarity and air with a heaping dose of organic "digititis" removing tube magic. Think along the lines of a Telefunken triode vs Russian 6H30 tube differences and you'll understand the difference between the two. Either CDP is a must for any system that either lacks any other tubes or is in need of "analog warmth". (Notice I didn't say tube warmth as that implies many other things and people often misinterpret and over abuse that term!). Tubes do not necessarily have to sound warm, it depends!

[PHC1]

I thought it would be fun to compare the two system in a video form, shot at 1080p HD. Don't forget to select the 1080P if you have the bandwidth!

Here is a head to head comparison. $62k worth of ARC Reference gear vs $22k retail worth of Shindo middle of the line gear (bought preowned at a discount! )

I know it is difficult to judge from a youtube video with compressed sound but... both of these were shot with the same camera and I assume suffer from the same compression for what it's worth.

So here goes. In my opinion, the ARC excels at reproducing the transients, especially the leading edge but also sounds a bit faster as if it tries to catch the leading edge and without giving you the full bloom and decay, jumps to the next set of transients. I know this is not the case but that's what it sounds like. It is almost solid state in nature but of course it's all tubes. Dynamic contrast is very impressive for an all tube system! Those KT120s are like the best of both worlds, dynamics of SS but the air and spaciousness/three dimensionality of the best tubes.

If you carefully listen to both systems/video clips, you may notice that the Shindo is a bit gentler on the leading edge transients but the decay seems to be there a bit stronger and more pronounced. Harmonic bloom of either is top notch, not many SS amps/preamps can truly bring out harmonic content quite to this degree. To my ears the Shindo captures the harmonic bouquet a bit nicer!

You may also notice that the midrange does sound a bit different. The SET Cortese pulls away with a bit more emotional, a bit fuller and warmer presentation. It is more engaging... richer and fuller.



Frequency extension is about equal on both... See below about bass.

You may also notice, surprise, surprise that Shindo captures just a bit more of the studio's space and recreates it a bit better. The ARC while having just as spacious, deep and wide soundstage falls a bit behind on the captured acoustical space! How is that for point to point wiring vs modern circuits!

Overall, the ARC is still a bit leaner sounding, a bit faster, a bit more focused, more HI-FI which in itself is enough for many audiophiles to say it is a clear winner! Not to my ears. I value other parameters. Richness, fullness, emotional presentation is what is the most important to me, other parameters are secondary. Now, keep in mind, 10w of SET vs 250w of KT120! Now imagine this, the 10w SET does have bass qualities I personally relate to better. The ARC digs down a bit deeper but Shindo pulls ahead with a more analog, rounder sounding bass that excites the speakers and the room just a bit different.

Also, keep in mind, in the following video, I am using the EAR solid state phono stage with Shindo vs a $12k tubed phono for the ARC!


But... in the grand scheme of things, the systems are more similar than they are different... So what say you audiophiles, is there a $40k worth of noticeable difference???


ARC Reference gear

[ame=http://youtu.be/7HiS4a-TcAU]ARC Reference - YouTube[/ame]




Shindo

[ame=http://youtu.be/Wp9YbVEiOBc]Shindo sings again - YouTube[/ame]

[FranklinLG]

Seriously? I know it's u tube, but is there really a debate here? The arc seemed edgy, and the shindo seemed to create a nice presence. Yes, it's u tube... I think you get my thoughts on "u" tube...

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by FranklinLG

Seriously? I know it's u tube, but is there really a debate here? The arc seemed edgy, and the shindo seemed to create a nice presence. Yes, it's u tube... I think you get my thoughts on "u" tube...

Edgy is a bit too harsh of a word, it is all tube after all... It is definitely an ARC house sound but overall, the REF250s and REF40th take it to another level of musicality. I've had the REF5 and REF210s at my house twice. Once with a few hundred hours and once with over 1200 hrs... The new system was more musical out of the box and stone cold.

[chessman]

Serge, I am sorry, but the only thing this tells us is how your cam's mic processes what the gear is playing. Kind of like the 1812 Overture played on kazoos.

I have no doubt that you hear a difference that matters to you. And I get that the good stuff in each is close enough for you to believe the money spread is not worth it. I even applaud that kind of rationality - life has many competing needs. I also applaud guys who trust their own ears over reading about audio. Congrats on finding what works for you.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by chessman

Serge, I am sorry, but the only thing this tells us is how your cam's mic processes what the gear is playing. Kind of like the 1812 Overture played on kazoos.

I have no doubt that you hear a difference that matters to you. And I get that the good stuff in each is close enough for you to believe the money spread is not worth it. I even applaud that kind of rationality - life has many competing needs. I also applaud guys who trust their own ears over reading about audio. Congrats on finding what works for you.

Like I said Randy, it is a compressed video and sound at best. However, a trained ear will hear the difference none the less since they are both compressed and captured by the same camera/mike and go through youtube compression the same way. Obviously it doesn't come even close to what it sounds like in my room but the differences between the two systems can be heard even in these clips. Never mind the fidelity, listen to the differences on the level of these clips and deduce from there.