What About Pre-DACS? Like the new Classé Audio CP-800?

[chadhaas]

I am having a challenge finding a product that will meet my needs on the front-end of my system and would appreciate hearing some feedback on what components forum readers think might best serve my needs. Classé Audio just launched a new product, they are calling a "Pre-DAC" and I wonder what others think of it.

Because ALL of my source material is digital, it is coming from either an (1) iPod; (2) Computer drive/internet feed/DirecTV; or (3) Movies via a Blu-Ray player.

The preamplifier is what is causing me fits. Ideally, I'd like to feed my source directly to my McIntosh MC2301 amps with as little in between as possible.

When playing movies I do not forsee ever venturing into surround sound as I am completely comfortable watching movies through two front speakers and no center or surround speakers.

What is intriguing about the Classé Audio CP-800 (see below) is that is that it combines a preamp and DAC together. Another product that appears similar is the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC; however, I am not entirely certain that the output stage of their DAC can provide enough gain as this is not a "true" preamplifier.

What are your thoughts about Pre-DAC's? Is this the best solution ... or should I be considering something else?

[chadhaas]

Here is information about the Classé Audio CP-800 Stereo Preamp/Processor:

Classé showed working prototypes of its new CP-800 Stereo Preamp/Processor at CEDIA Expo 2010. Said to be the first of a new generation of stereo preamplifiers designed to take full advantage of today’s high resolution digital sources, the CP-800 offers new digital processing features including optimal asynchronous USB and full support of Apple’s iPod®, iPhone® and iPad® range of products.

“Using proprietary technology, the CP-800 achieves more with less circuitry than any conventional preamp could,” said Dave Nauber, Executive VP, Brand Development for Classé. “The connection to the recording is now so direct and immediate, it’s like plugging into the mixing board and listening right there in the studio.”

In addition to accommodating legacy analog and digital sources, Classé announced that the CP-800 can also optimize playback from computer audio files and portable devices like iPods via USB using asynchronous techniques and proprietary clocking circuits. A storage device like an iPod or computer can contain all the data of the original recording, so it has the potential to be an audiophile source. The challenge is to clock that data into the D-to-A converters at precisely the right time, which the CP-800 achieves through newly-developed recovery and clocking technology.

“Using full resolution files and one of its USB inputs, the CP-800 can surpass the performance of conventional disc playback systems,” says Nauber. “When the innovative audio circuitry and power supply designs are factored in, the CP-800 becomes a ground-breaking new product with unmatched performance at an affordable price.”

A new power supply design optimizes the electrical environment for the audio circuitry inside the CP-800 and benefits associated equipment sharing the same AC power. PFC (Power Factor Correction) technology ensures the most efficient operation of the power supply while maintaining a constant load on the AC Mains. The benefit, according to Classé, is that the preamp/processor does not modulate the AC mains as would a conventional linear power supply without PFC. Other system components won’t even know it’s there.

In addition to superb performance as a digital-to-analog converter and stereo preamplifier, Classé says the CP-800 boasts features like bass management and parametric EQ that heretofore have been lacking in stereo preamps. There is a subwoofer output and two configurable auxiliary channels that can be used to drive additional subs, bi-amp the L&R channels or feed into another room.

Classé points out that a properly implemented subwoofer (or two) is at least as beneficial to stereo playback systems as it is to home theaters. Placing the Left and Right speakers for best stereo imaging rarely delivers ultimate bass response at the listening position, no matter how well those speakers can reproduce low frequencies. One or more subwoofers avoid this compromise. Parametric EQ enables further tweaking of the low frequency modes to achieve the best overall system performance. As with Classé SSPs, the subwoofer(s) may be configured for use with some inputs and not others or engaged with different crossover frequencies/slopes as desired.

An updated 16x9 touchscreen and graphical user interface give the CP-800 a fresh new look to match its advanced feature set. With both USB host and slave connections and a useful range of output configuration options, the CP-800 looks and works like the preamp of the future.

The CP-800 is expected to be available in December and will retail for under $6,000 (I believe the MSRP has been changed to $5000).

[jdandy]

Chad.......You might want to look into McIntosh's two newset preamplifiers, the C48 and C50. Both feature built in DACs, plenty of digital inputs including USB. Either would be a fine addition to the MC2301's.

[chadhaas]

Hello Dan,

What intrigues me about the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC (and possibly the Classé Audio CP-800, but I simply do not know enough about it yet) is that it can also become a music server that can play all sorts of file sources in any format (.wav, .flac, .mp3, etc) at any resolution or bit rate and make them sound just as good as the lossless files on a CD. Now if the McIntosh C48 or C50 can make an .mp3 file sound almost indistinguishable from its CD brother, then maybe that also is a product for me to consider.

Thank you for your input!

Chad

[-E-]

Or just get a MDA1000 or new MCD1100. Both are fine pre's (the 1100 being the new/better beast) and have a bevy of digital inputs.

I am very similar to you - remove as much affecting the source material as possible (especially in the digital domain). I use my MDA1000 as a DAC & Pre and am very pleased with the result.

[Face]

Originally Posted by chadhaas

Hello Dan,

What intrigues me about the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC (and possibly the Classé Audio CP-800, but I simply do not know enough about it yet) is that it can also become a music server that can play all sorts of file sources in any format (.wav, .flac, .mp3, etc) at any resolution or bit rate and make them sound just as good as the lossless files on a CD. Now if the McIntosh C48 or C50 can make an .mp3 file sound almost indistinguishable from its CD brother, then maybe that also is a product for me to consider.

Thank you for your input!

Chad

No DAC is going to be able to magically add those bits back in. My advice, junk the MP3's and re-rip in a lossless format. Any device that makes them all sound alike would be very non-transparent.

[-E-]

Oh - just noticed that emphasized portion of the quote, and completely agree with Face - it is impossible to make MP3's sound normal, and very easy to hear what junk they actually are.

Any company claiming it can do so is blowing smoke ................ places.

[chadhaas]

Originally Posted by Vesuvius

Or just get a MDA1000 or new MCD1100. Both are fine pre's (the 1100 being the new/better beast) and have a bevy of digital inputs.

I am very similar to you - remove as much affecting the source material as possible (especially in the digital domain). I use my MDA1000 as a DAC & Pre and am very pleased with the result.

You mention the McIntosh MCD1100. I looked into that product and really liked it; however, it doesn't play movies, thereby necessitating me having to purchase a Blu-Ray player. If I'm going to scuttle my current Sony ES transport and Blu-Ray to upgrade to a product like the MCD1100, I wish it was a universal player.

I'm thinking that I am going to stand pat on my transport and focus on the preamp and DAC. My dilemma is finding a product that is both a preamp and a DAC all together in one source. I have 11,000+ songs stored on my hard drive and want to access them at the highest possible fidelity, needing only the ability to select them and a volume control.

Chad

[Face]

You could pick up a receiver/prepro for cable/movies and a DAC with HT bypass and a built in preamp for your music library for the best of both worlds.

[chadhaas]

Originally Posted by Face

No DAC is going to be able to magically add those bits back in. My advice, junk the MP3's and re-rip in a lossless format. Any device that makes them all sound alike would be very non-transparent.

I agree with you, until I heard the Classé Audio CP-800 play an mp3 file. It suprised me how good it sounded.

Although I have not heard the PS Audio Soundwave product, here is the claim Paul McGowen made about its capabilities (fast forward to 3:35-4:45):

YouTube - PS Audio PerfectWave DAC