Only the fools never change their mind....WP8 !!!

[Rafale]

Originally Posted by PHC1

. Wilson is not Sonus Faber, it does not override the gear!

Serge..... what do you mean by 'override' ?

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Rafale

Serge..... what do you mean by 'override' ?

What I mean by that is all the Sonus Faber speakers I have owned were not nearly as reactive to changes in gear. All the Wilson speakers have been. With the Cremona Auditors and Memento's I could have easily switched from a 75w McIntosh tube amp to the McIntosh 500w solid state amp and not hear a big difference, in fact I did that weekly. With the Elipsa, I could have switched from a 10 year old Bryston amp to the new version which sounds much different and also not really appreciate a difference. All the Wilson speakers I had could easily tell me all the differences in the gear. Going from McIntosh to Ayre to Lamm, to McIntosh 300w tube amps, different cables, etc... with Wilson resulted in immediate and audible change, I didn't have to struggle to hear it.

The Sonus Faber speakers have a "flavor" to them that simply erases much of the difference in gear. I don't want to stereotype, I have not heard much of the newest SF speakers other than the Amati Futura and don't want to say that it is necessarily a bad thing either. The flavor of SF is quite pleasing to the ear.

Wilson are like chameleons, they will change their color to whatever the gear driving them is. Call them more resolving, more accurate, more detailed, whatever, the fact is one can hear a difference and that to me is both challenging but more rewarding when the right combination is found.

[Elberoth]

jpspock - I noticed that you have both Pass XA100.5 and YBA Passion 1000. Could you briefly describe the differences between the two ?

I have heard the YBA Passion once, many years ago and like the sound a lot, although did not have the chance to compare them anything else.

[Rafale]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Jerome, I have owned 3 pairs of Wilson. Sophia 2, 3 and Sasha. They are all very exciting and yes, even "musical" speakers when paired with the right gear and setup properly. I can also tell you that I have owned at least 3 other brands in between all my Wilson. Wilson universally was much easier to set up in my 3 different rooms.

If the Sophia 2 or 3 is easier on the wallet and to obtain over in France, I highly recommend you give them a serious listen as well. The W/P 7 and 8 were great speakers for many, as I mentioned in another post but the Sasha raises the bar in the "engaging" and "moving" categories with the right gear. It is very important to listen to Wilson with at least a few different gear scenarios. You will quickly understand what the speaker is capable of and why it sounds so different in different places with different gear. Wilson is not Sonus Faber, it does not override the gear!

Originally Posted by PHC1

What I mean by that is all the Sonus Faber speakers I have owned were not nearly as reactive to changes in gear. All the Wilson speakers have been. With the Cremona Auditors and Memento's I could have easily switched from a 75w McIntosh tube amp to the McIntosh 500w solid state amp and not hear a big difference, in fact I did that weekly. With the Elipsa, I could have switched from a 10 year old Bryston amp to the new version which sounds much different and also not really appreciate a difference. All the Wilson speakers I had could easily tell me all the differences in the gear. Going from McIntosh to Ayre to Lamm, to McIntosh 300w tube amps, different cables, etc... with Wilson resulted in immediate and audible change, I didn't have to struggle to hear it.

The Sonus Faber speakers have a "flavor" to them that simply erases much of the difference in gear. I don't want to stereotype, I have not heard much of the newest SF speakers other than the Amati Futura and don't want to say that it is necessarily a bad thing either. The flavor of SF is quite pleasing to the ear.

Wilson are like chameleons, they will change their color to whatever the gear driving them is. Call them more resolving, more accurate, more detailed, whatever, the fact is one can hear a difference and that to me is both challenging but more rewarding when the right combination is found.

Thanks Serge.... disturbing-I have no same experience of the SF gear- but interesting, I am going to try to go to listen to Wilson

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by PHC1

What I mean by that is all the Sonus Faber speakers I have owned were not nearly as reactive to changes in gear. All the Wilson speakers have been. With the Cremona Auditors and Memento's I could have easily switched from a 75w McIntosh tube amp to the McIntosh 500w solid state amp and not hear a big difference, in fact I did that weekly. With the Elipsa, I could have switched from a 10 year old Bryston amp to the new version which sounds much different and also not really appreciate a difference. All the Wilson speakers I had could easily tell me all the differences in the gear. Going from McIntosh to Ayre to Lamm, to McIntosh 300w tube amps, different cables, etc... with Wilson resulted in immediate and audible change, I didn't have to struggle to hear it.

The Sonus Faber speakers have a "flavor" to them that simply erases much of the difference in gear. I don't want to stereotype, I have not heard much of the newest SF speakers other than the Amati Futura and don't want to say that it is necessarily a bad thing either. The flavor of SF is quite pleasing to the ear.

Wilson are like chameleons, they will change their color to whatever the gear driving them is. Call them more resolving, more accurate, more detailed, whatever, the fact is one can hear a difference and that to me is both challenging but more rewarding when the right combination is found.

Serge.......You present the statement "Sonus Faber speakers have a "flavor" to them that simply erases much of the difference in gear" like it is a fact. I beg to differ. No doubt you have an opinion, but this statement is far from the truth. The same goes for the "flavor" comment. Honestly, what speaker does not have a flavor? If Sasha's did not have a "flavor", there would not be a Sophia, or a Maxx, or whatever other speakers Wilson makes. All speakers have their voice, a flavor, or however one choses to describe it. The same is true for electronics. An amplifier is no more voiceless than a speaker.

Wilson speakers are no greater chameleons than many other fine speakers, including many in the Sonus Faber line. I can fully appreciate a Wilson owner's enthusiasm for his choice of reproducer, but that does not mean that Sonus Faber speakers and many others take a back seat. I take exception with the notion that somehow Sonus Faber speakers "override the gear", and aren't resolving enough to hear the changes when driven with different preamplifiers, amplifiers, sources, interconnects or speaker cables. My personal experience with the Cremona Auditor's, Guarneri Memento's and the Amati Anniversario's does not reflect this notion in the slightest. In fact, using five different amplifiers and three different preamplifiers, both tube and solid state, revealed just the opposite. Each change always produced discernible differences and nuances to each speaker's performance. I did not strain to hear or recognize changes presented. The very same was true when swapping tubes in power amps or preamps. The audible differences brought about by these changes were clearly revealed. The same was true when swapping interconnects and/or speaker cables. Not once did any of the Sonus Faber speakers I have owned fail to clearly reveal the differences of any system component or cable change I made. It has been my experience that a large part of a speaker's ability to be ultra revealing has a great deal to do with the room in which it resides. All rooms, along with their acoustic properties and limitations, play greatly into any speaker's ultimate performance capabilities.

It is perfectly clear that you and many others are more than smitten with the Wilson product line. It is a fine company that produces high performance speakers in a hotly competitive high-end speaker market. I can say the same for Sonus Faber, PMC, JM Labs, and many other fine and equally prestigious speaker manufacturers. No single company has a lock on the best. That concept is an opinion usually reserved for owner's imaginations and bragging rights. We all do it, so happy listening to all.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......You present the statement "Sonus Faber speakers have a "flavor" to them that simply erases much of the difference in gear" like it is a fact. I beg to differ. No doubt you have an opinion, but this statement is far from the truth. The same goes for the "flavor" comment. Honestly, what speaker does not have a flavor? If Sasha's did not have a "flavor", there would not be a Sophia, or a Maxx, or whatever other speakers Wilson makes. All speakers have their voice, a flavor, or however one choses to describe it. The same is true for electronics. An amplifier is no more voiceless than a speaker.

Wilson speakers are no greater chameleons than many other fine speakers, including many in the Sonus Faber line. I can fully appreciate a Wilson owner's enthusiasm for his choice of reproducer, but that does not mean that Sonus Faber speakers and many others take a back seat. I take exception with the notion that somehow Sonus Faber speakers "override the gear", and aren't resolving enough to hear the changes when driven with different preamplifiers, amplifiers, sources, interconnects or speaker cables. My personal experience with the Cremona Auditor's, Guarneri Memento's and the Amati Anniversario's does not reflect this notion in the slightest. In fact, using five different amplifiers and three different preamplifiers, both tube and solid state, revealed just the opposite. Each change always produced discernible differences and nuances to each speaker's performance. I did not strain to hear or recognize changes presented. The very same was true when swapping tubes in power amps or preamps. The audible differences brought about by these changes were clearly revealed. The same was true when swapping interconnects and/or speaker cables. Not once did any of the Sonus Faber speakers I have owned fail to clearly reveal the differences of any system component or cable change I made. It has been my experience that a large part of a speaker's ability to be ultra revealing has a great deal to do with the room in which it resides. All rooms, along with their acoustic properties and limitations, play greatly into any speaker's ultimate performance capabilities.

It is perfectly clear that you and many others are more than smitten with the Wilson product line. It is a fine company that produces high performance speakers in a hotly competitive high-end speaker market. I can say the same for Sonus Faber, PMC, JM Labs, and many other fine and equally prestigious speaker manufacturers. No single company has a lock on the best. That concept is an opinion usually reserved for owner's imaginations and bragging rights. We all do it, so happy listening to all.

Dan, I do believe I have a "leg up" on this debate. I think it is pretty much universally accepted by those who have heard or owned Sonus Faber over the many years of their history that they are a "warmish" and "forgiving" type of a speaker. I have certainly heard most of them all at one point or another. I have also lived with the 4 pairs of different Sonus Fabers. Every new generation seemed to have brought on a move towards the more open and detailed sound although in baby steps. The Strads are certainly not the Amati Futura! Go and find out for yourself.

I also did not imply that the Sonus Fabers are so warm and so lacking in openness and revealing qualities that no gear will make a difference. It is all relative! By comparison, yes, Wilson is much more revealing of a speaker and of changes upstream in the gear. Sorry, that is a fact.

My room where the Elipsa resided is one of the best rooms I have heard and those that have heard it, including my dealer agree that it is superb for acoustics and allowing the gear to reach optimum performance. I think I have a very good frame of reference when I say the Elipsa does not compare to the Wilson Sasha in many parameters after living with them for over a year. The Elipsa is still a great speaker and very enjoyable but.... Wilson beats it fair and square in many ways.

Now, am I saying that because I own Wilson? I think you know me better than that by now. I don't have an agenda, I don't sell Wilson and as much gear as I go through, I also don't have either blind pride or get my feelings hurt if someone says something I don't like or want to hear about my speakers or gear.


Again, I am not bashing Sonus Faber, they are very enjoyable speakers in the context of the right system. Heck, the only Krell system I've ever actually enjoyed was with SF. What does that say though? Are SF speakers magic or are they simply warmish and forgiving?

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by PHC1

I also did not imply that the Sonus Fabers are so warm and so lacking in openness and revealing qualities that no gear will make a difference. It is all relative! By comparison, yes, Wilson is much more revealing of a speaker and of changes upstream in the gear. Sorry, that is a fact.

Serge... The only fact is that this is nothing more than your opinion of which you are entitled.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

Serge... The only fact is that this is nothing more than your opinion of which you are entitled.

Hmm, so you don't hear how much more neutral your own new Sonus Fabers are compared to say your Strads?

[jdandy]

Serge.......I am certain your room is excellent. I am certain you speakers are excellent, as are your new amplifiers, too. Enjoy them in good health.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......I am certain your room is excellent. I am certain you speakers are excellent, as are your new amplifiers, too. Enjoy them in good health.

Thank you Dan, as is your system and your room. I also wish you many enjoyable listening sessions in great health.