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  #11  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:11 PM
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Pronan Pronan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
I agree that tube rolling is a non sense for Shindo : Ken Shindo spent enough time himself to select very good tubes for his amps and preamps. Tube rolling starts when original tubes are tired as we're mine in the Apetite, and you bought a used unit from an individual and not the dealer : from what I was told, Shindo will not provide new NOS tubes for those.

For power cords, I think that Shindo amps are somehow immune to them. Exotic PCs do not make them sound better. Stick with the stock cords.

Of course, Shindo amps are made to be used with high impedance / high eff speakers. All the users, me included, who use them with other speakers do not hear them as they were voiced, and do this at their own risk.
Good point Jerome. Sometimes we are voicing our kit in environments and under constraints that we understand and accept.

Personally this thread has shed light on support platforms (plywood), confirmed power cord ( but only because I have tried it) but tube rolling is something i personally want to try.

I would like to say that a willingness to experience thru experiment does not mean that people are more interested in tweaking versus listening to music, which is kind of what some of the dealers are saying on this thread. My amps are on 2-4 hrs a day for seven days a week, my 3 year old and my 7 year old turn them on and the family listens. My children talk about Albert hall recordings that sound 'large and around them' . To swap some valves for 200hrs to consider the difference is not the pursuit of tweak but to understand the value of the room (possibly a bigger issue than the kit), the relationship between the components and our ability to consider tone versus quality across a number of music types and range of musical recording on the kit that we enjoy.

This Reply is not meant to be a soapbox but I do hope Shindo is the last amp commitment i need ever make, but comparison options within the configuration are acceptable in my book.

Cheers,
Pal
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2013, 01:12 AM
AudioKiwi AudioKiwi is offline
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I have to laugh - in another thread Jerome said his JAN PHILIPS NOS 6V6 GT's sounded great. Why? Because he likes them!

Tube rolling and tweaking can be fun and doesn't have to end in a depressive audio nervous reaction.

Roll away I say - especially those of you that cannot get (or aren't allowed) the original tubes.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2013, 01:36 AM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioKiwi
I have to laugh - in another thread Jerome said his JAN PHILIPS NOS 6V6 GT's sounded great. Why? Because he likes them!

Tube rolling and tweaking can be fun and doesn't have to end in a depressive audio nervous reaction.

Roll away I say - especially those of you that cannot get (or aren't allowed) the original tubes.
I agree. Tube rolling is fine on Shindo amps and preamps as it is on any othet tube gear.
The only thing is to know wether the amps are auto or fixed bias and how to adjust the bias when needed since no info is available in the "manual".
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:38 AM
tonyd tonyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioKiwi View Post
I have to laugh - in another thread Jerome said his JAN PHILIPS NOS 6V6 GT's sounded great. Why? Because he likes them!

Tube rolling and tweaking can be fun and doesn't have to end in a depressive audio nervous reaction.

Roll away I say - especially those of you that cannot get (or aren't allowed) the original tubes.
+1 ... hear hear!
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2013, 06:09 AM
S1chen S1chen is offline
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Not true totally. I have a VR and I have change the phono section tube, the line amp include the c3m without the metal case. Part of the dark sounding of this great dead quiet Pre amp is due to the use of not the best tube in the market. Of course we cannot blame shindo for not giving his best as those tube are rare and expensive. On the PC side, it is indeed sensitive but the original is just distance from the best.

On the platform, it is also secretively and it like something solid and dead sounding. It don't like isolation cone or glassy.

Tube: replace with telefunken ECC82, mullard ECC81, milliwatt EF184, un-capsuled c3M. Transformer reference powerlink with mm2x and sit on HRS M3X isolation. Interconnect are all Kondo LPZ and VSz.
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2013, 07:52 AM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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"I would like to say that a willingness to experience thru experiment does not mean that people are more interested in tweaking versus listening to music, which is kind of what some of the dealers are saying on this thread."

I just reread all the posts, where does any of the dealers suggest that?

S1chen- what is the rest of your system?

The VR dark? Never heard that before. Transparent I think is the power cord you tried? I tried this too at a dealer, wrong for Shindo in my personal opinion. We also tried HRS, this is completely the wrong solution for Shindo as well, it made Shindo sound like a generic preamp- lit up, harmonic structure tipped upwards, somewhat stripped and out of balance, bass lost definition while taking on a more heavy sound etc. Funny thing is HRS on other brands is excellent. HRS owned a Monbrison and they personally found it was the only preamp they ever tried that sounded worse with their treatments. The explanation was that Shindo was the only one that had actually paid attention to chassis tuning and resonance. And the Kondo cables... this is another EQ thing. In my opinion, something is going on in your system or room. You've done everything possible to brighten and tilt up the sound. Or maybe we just have different goals.

I'm not against people spending money and especially not against people enjoying themselves. I also know what is possible from Shindo and find it really sad so many never get to experience the possibilities. Your time and money should be spent making your system work as best as possible. Spend your time on room treatment before tube rolling. The difference between tubes is 1% of the difference between room acoustics. Besides, you run a much lower risk of breaking something when doing room treatment that you do when rolling tubes:-)

Jonathan
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:11 AM
dirtbag dirtbag is offline
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The "more interest in tweaking than listening to music " was my comment.
I am not a dealer.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyljh View Post
"I would like to say that a willingness to experience thru experiment does not mean that people are more interested in tweaking versus listening to music, which is kind of what some of the dealers are saying on this thread."

I just reread all the posts, where does any of the dealers suggest that?

S1chen- what is the rest of your system?

The VR dark? Never heard that before. Transparent I think is the power cord you tried? I tried this too at a dealer, wrong for Shindo in my personal opinion. We also tried HRS, this is completely the wrong solution for Shindo as well, it made Shindo sound like a generic preamp- lit up, harmonic structure tipped upwards, somewhat stripped and out of balance, bass lost definition while taking on a more heavy sound etc. Funny thing is HRS on other brands is excellent. HRS owned a Monbrison and they personally found it was the only preamp they ever tried that sounded worse with their treatments. The explanation was that Shindo was the only one that had actually paid attention to chassis tuning and resonance. And the Kondo cables... this is another EQ thing. In my opinion, something is going on in your system or room. You've done everything possible to brighten and tilt up the sound. Or maybe we just have different goals.

I'm not against people spending money and especially not against people enjoying themselves. I also know what is possible from Shindo and find it really sad so many never get to experience the possibilities. Your time and money should be spent making your system work as best as possible. Spend your time on room treatment before tube rolling. The difference between tubes is 1% of the difference between room acoustics. Besides, you run a much lower risk of breaking something when doing room treatment that you do when rolling tubes:-)

Jonathan
To answer your question; I am assuming you are a dealer? And refer to your response to dirtbag post, and the post from NeilNZ who is a dealer.

In your final paragraph (putting aside the sadness you feel) you state that our time and money should be spent on making the system work best a possible, which in your eyes means dont "tweak" which I don't think is mutually exclusive.

BTW All three listening rooms are treated, to different levels, according to waf.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:21 AM
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I have tried several supports and found that plywood really makes wonders with Shindo.
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:34 AM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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Not just sheets of plywood, a plywood rack. One sheet of ply becomes a spring board of sorts. A properly constructed and tuned rack.

Pronan- I am a distributor, Tone Imports. I'm sorry you misinterpreted my post.

Jonathan
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