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  #11  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:30 PM
trponhunter trponhunter is offline
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I have yet to do a controlled direct a to b comparison when adding a pre amp into a system versus using good digital volume control where the pre amp was better. There was always a reduction of transparency, resolution, focus and space when adding the pre amp - as there should be when you subject the signal to more cables, connectors and analog componentry. No matter how good all of those things are, they need to reduce transparency. With an analog signal, the less you do to it, the better off you are.

To do a proper comparison, I have found that you need to use a great, simply miked recording - recorded in real space of natural acoustic instruments to do the evaluation. If using multi miked stuff then you have much less of an idea what it should sound like, and you may prefer the sound through the preamp - this doesn't make the addition of the pre amp truly better - you just "prefer it".
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:46 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trponhunter View Post
I have yet to do a controlled direct a to b comparison when adding a pre amp into a system versus using good digital volume control where the pre amp was better.
Unless I am behind times, the only way to control volume in the digital domain, to reduce the amplitude of the signal is to reduce the values of the digital signal which in turn reduces the resolution of that signal. How is that better?

Last edited by PHC1; 10-19-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:04 PM
parkcaka parkcaka is offline
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2 words. Impedance matching.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:37 PM
trponhunter trponhunter is offline
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Theoretical versus practical when talking about the digital resolution loss versus the analog loss when using a pre amp. From my experience, the loss introduced by the analog pre amp is much greater. As I mentioned, I have done the direct a to b comparison ( in the same room, at the same time, on the same system, at the same volume) for over 15 years - done at a minimum of 30 times (most likely many more times than that). I have also yet to find anyone I have done the comparison for or have a different opinion as to the outcome. If using a proper recording that is simply miked and not processed - I have yet to find a pre amp addition improve things. I have used pre amps up to $30,000 when doing these comparisons. The most you can hope for is as little change as possibly when you insert the pre amp into the signal path. I know there are a lot of people who will disagree with these statements, but they are my opinion based on the comparisons I have experienced - not a theory of what will happen.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:54 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trponhunter View Post
Theoretical versus practical when talking about the digital resolution loss versus the analog loss when using a pre amp. From my experience, the loss introduced by the analog pre amp is much greater. As I mentioned, I have done the direct a to b comparison ( in the same room, at the same time, on the same system, at the same volume) for over 15 years - done at a minimum of 30 times (most likely many more times than that). I have also yet to find anyone I have done the comparison for or have a different opinion as to the outcome. If using a proper recording that is simply miked and not processed - I have yet to find a pre amp addition improve things. I have used pre amps up to $30,000 when doing these comparisons. The most you can hope for is as little change as possibly when you insert the pre amp into the signal path. I know there are a lot of people who will disagree with these statements, but they are my opinion based on the comparisons I have experienced - not a theory of what will happen.
Likewise here. 25 years+ in high end audio, preamps tubed, solid state, passive and digital domain. My findings are opposite of yours. We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:59 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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If there was one universal agreement or everyone had the same ears, taste and came to the same conclusion, there wouldn't be tube,SS, hybrid, digital, passive preamps or much of anything to choose from in audio. One universal design that made everyone happy would be in turn simplified, miniaturized, built in a country of cheapest labor and this hobby would cease to exist.

Last edited by PHC1; 10-19-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:17 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Good video on the topic. Bascom H. King speaks out on preamplifiers.

https://youtu.be/HHl8F9amyY4
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:34 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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2 words. Impedance matching.
Right and the output impedance of a passive device varies with the setting of the volume control, often to a figure too high for the input impedance of some power amps, unless the passive is transformer based.

Last edited by PHC1; 10-19-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
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Unless I am behind times, the only way to control volume in the digital domain, to reduce the amplitude of the signal is to reduce the values of the digital signal which in turn reduces the resolution of that signal. How is that better?
Exactamundo...
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:44 PM
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I have both flavors and am pleased with each in its appointed place.

An active (c-j Premier 17LS) control-centers my main system and a passive (Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II) volume-controls my single-high-level-source, acoustically-treated-to-death bedroom system.

I posted my impressions of the matched-to-my-system Axiom II elsewhere in this forum last June. The takeaway: in-spades transparency, no perceptible constriction of dynamics, soundstage, or bass down to the lowest limit of my Paradigm Studio 20s working in that room driven by a 125-wpc Sonographe solid-state amp. If anything, it sounds a shade more neutral (or, if you like, less "warm") in that setting than the Premier 17LS does in the main system. And the output is "quieter" (no hum or noise) than it was with either the tube/hybrid Counterpoint SA2000 or the FET-based Sonographe SC25 in the same system.

Overall take: Yummy. Which is all that matters to me.

Jim
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