Amp Set up for 803Ds

[Dreamsystem]

Hello:

Finished remodeling and just about to install my first really high end system and need some recommendations:


Principal:
Video: OPPO BDP-95 / Panasonic 65VT50
Audio: Itunes Library-Dedicated mac mini
Proc: McIntosh MX121
Amp: McIntosh MC205 (200Wx5)
Speakers: B&W 803D, B&W HTM4, B&W 805D, B&W DB1

Upstairs Terrace:
Amp: Marantz MM7055 (140Wx5)
Speakers: 3 Boston Voyager 70


I have a couple of questions:

Until recently my principal system was comprised 4x805Ds but had the opportunity to upgrade to the 803Ds for the front. Which I like soooo much more. But now I feel I am under powering the 803Ds with the MC205 (200w). Was thinking about bi-amping the MC205, then leaving the 5th channel for the HTM4 for when watching a movie. But in order to do this then I would have to power the 805Ds with 2 remaining channels of the Marantz.

Do you have any comments or suggestions with regards to this setup. Any tech no-no's with regards to it? Will having very different watts to each channel affect in any way? (400w LF/RF, 200w Center, 140w Rear…). Also, the different brand of amps, makes me doubt this is a good solution to my problem. Might reduce overall sound quality? I know that it would be best to buy another McIntosh amp, but gotta wait on that one for a while. Wallet is kinda thin right now, been on a shopping spree building this system. jejeje. Also, it might just be best just to use the MC205+B&WDs combo and just power the 803Ds with 200w.

Obviously, I will listen to it in order to make a final decision with this setup but please let me know what you think and any past experience you have.

Finally. for the video part of the system I am using the oppo for certain reasons, so I am set with that, but for the audio I have all my music on itunes, I know this system is a bit over the head for that, but it is, what it is. What setup, connection, conversion rate, etc would you suggest with a computer and the MX121.

Many thanks, I really appreciate any input.

[Rod#S]

Very nice system you have put together, congrats.

Here's my take, I might be more concerned about having a HTM4 as the center in that setup than I would be about what's powering the speakers. What version is the 803? D1 or D2? And the 4, is it the HTM4D?

The reason I mention this is because in movies and multi-channel music the center is sooo important and the HTM4D is really only an appropriate center for a 805D system because it shares the same mid/bass driver, it's essentially a 805D on it's side. All other speakers in the 800 series have separate mid and bass drivers and the mid range in particular is the FST driver so really the true match for the 804D2 and especially the 803D2 is the HTM2D2.

If you don't listen to multi-channel music and/or little movies and you are more of a 2 channel guy than having the 4 as the center then isn't as big a deal.

Getting to if the 200 watts is enough for the 803's that's really going to come down to how large is your room, how loud do you turn the system up and what frequency do you crossover to the sub?

I personally don't believe in bi-amping speakers with passive crossovers as I don't feel it brings any leap in performance. I heard little to no difference when I tried it myself with my 802's and 800's but your mileage may vary.

I also wouldn't worry about not having the same amount of power for each speaker especially when the speakers used have dramatically different wattage ranges as yours does, the recommended max power for the 803's is 500 watts while the HTM4 and 805's is only 120 watts.

[dantes0929]

Originally Posted by Dreamsystem

Hello:

Finished remodeling and just about to install my first really high end system and need some recommendations:

Principal:
Video: OPPO BDP-95 / Panasonic 65VT50
Audio: Itunes Library-Dedicated mac mini
Proc: McIntosh MX121
Amp: McIntosh MC205 (200Wx5)
Speakers: B&W 803D, B&W HTM4, B&W 805D, B&W DB1

Upstairs Terrace:
Amp: Marantz MM7055 (140Wx5)
Speakers: 3 Boston Voyager 70

I have a couple of questions:

Until recently my principal system was comprised 4x805Ds but had the opportunity to upgrade to the 803Ds for the front. Which I like soooo much more. But now I feel I am under powering the 803Ds with the MC205 (200w). Was thinking about bi-amping the MC205, then leaving the 5th channel for the HTM4 for when watching a movie. But in order to do this then I would have to power the 805Ds with 2 remaining channels of the Marantz.

Do you have any comments or suggestions with regards to this setup. Any tech no-no's with regards to it? Will having very different watts to each channel affect in any way? (400w LF/RF, 200w Center, 140w Rear…). Also, the different brand of amps, makes me doubt this is a good solution to my problem. Might reduce overall sound quality? I know that it would be best to buy another McIntosh amp, but gotta wait on that one for a while. Wallet is kinda thin right now, been on a shopping spree building this system. jejeje. Also, it might just be best just to use the MC205+B&WDs combo and just power the 803Ds with 200w.

Obviously, I will listen to it in order to make a final decision with this setup but please let me know what you think and any past experience you have.

Finally. for the video part of the system I am using the oppo for certain reasons, so I am set with that, but for the audio I have all my music on itunes, I know this system is a bit over the head for that, but it is, what it is. What setup, connection, conversion rate, etc would you suggest with a computer and the MX121.

Many thanks, I really appreciate any input.

I have two setups as well, one just like yours, using 803ds front, 805d surround and a (small D series) i dont remember the model, however i use mc501s monos for 803d and mc205 center and surround with mx121 and im happy with mc501 with 500watt power. It Looks like its a must for the 803d to have 500watt power. Im using for movies only and not much for SACDs.

[scirica]

Originally Posted by dantes0929

I have two setups as well, one just like yours, using 803ds front, 805d surround and a (small D series) i dont remember the model, however i use mc501s monos for 803d and mc205 center and surround with mx121 and im happy with mc501 with 500watt power. It Looks like its a must for the 803d to have 500watt power. Im using for movies only and not much for SACDs.

Nice to see someone else doing something similar. I currently have the MC205 powering my 5.1 system, but when I add/upgrade my main R &L speakers to 1038be's I'm thinking about adding an MC452 for those and run the surrounds and center with MC205. Hopefully that will allow me to use the remaining channels for a zone 2.

[tutomac]

I am limited by space and budget to a HT/2Ch set up in a decent size open room. I recently bought a single MC501 to add to the mix and absolutely love it.
My speakers are Paradigm Studio Reference 100 in front and CC590 in center. The surrounds are in ceiling by Martin Logan.
I have MC452 for FR and FL, MC501 for center, and MC205 for surrounds. I am working on a second zone with two speakers in our master bathroom which will be powered by the 205. It's all run by the MX121, like you.
I have a Mac mini connected thru USB to a D100. I also have a Sonos Connect connected via W4S Remedy and coax to the D100. Both the Mac mini and Sonos are hardwired to Apple Time Capsule via Ethernet. The Time Capsule is wired to the router via Ethernet as well. I use JRiver to manage my files, and my entire music library is on Sonos as well as a backup, if you will.
Finally I have a MCD500 connected To MX121 via fixed unbalanced RCA's.
That's how my music is managed and so far so good.
I have been wanting to write my impressions on the MC501 as a center channel driver, but I have been lazy. I think I will soon.
Hope thisgives you an idea to work on.
Finally all my cabling is WW both Gold and Silver and I also think this helps trmendoulsy.
Good luck and enjoy!!

[eljr]

Originally Posted by Dreamsystem

had the opportunity to upgrade to the 803Ds for the front. Which I like soooo much more. But now I feel I am under powering the 803Ds with the MC205 (200w). .

I had the 803d's with a MC252. (250 watts per)

I told my audio guy the same thing, I felt they could use more power.

He told me, there was no need for more power, it was a want. He was correct.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dreamsystem]

Originally Posted by Rod#S

Very nice system you have put together, congrats.

Here's my take, I might be more concerned about having a HTM4 as the center in that setup than I would be about what's powering the speakers. What version is the 803? D1 or D2? And the 4, is it the HTM4D?

The reason I mention this is because in movies and multi-channel music the center is sooo important and the HTM4D is really only an appropriate center for a 805D system because it shares the same mid/bass driver, it's essentially a 805D on it's side. All other speakers in the 800 series have separate mid and bass drivers and the mid range in particular is the FST driver so really the true match for the 804D2 and especially the 803D2 is the HTM2D2.

If you don't listen to multi-channel music and/or little movies and you are more of a 2 channel guy than having the 4 as the center then isn't as big a deal.

Getting to if the 200 watts is enough for the 803's that's really going to come down to how large is your room, how loud do you turn the system up and what frequency do you crossover to the sub?

I personally don't believe in bi-amping speakers with passive crossovers as I don't feel it brings any leap in performance. I heard little to no difference when I tried it myself with my 802's and 800's but your mileage may vary.

I also wouldn't worry about not having the same amount of power for each speaker especially when the speakers used have dramatically different wattage ranges as yours does, the recommended max power for the 803's is 500 watts while the HTM4 and 805's is only 120 watts.

Thanks for the time.

I see now that the upgrade to the 803s is gonna cost me.. something I didn't see when I let the urge buy them... jajaja

I see your point on the HTM4, so I am going for the upgrade to the HTM2. Its good that I can return the HTM4 and also two 805s that are bnew and returnable. That will help. . With regards to the versions, all the speakers are the latest versions.

So with the new set up.. 803/HTM2/805

My question now is how many watts for the 803s. They are rated at 600w but I want to spend as little as possible and get optimum results with the power. As I said I have the MC205 with 200w. But from your suggestion I can read that it's not the right amp for these speakers with my listening needs.

The room is large. 15 feet wide x 50 deep x 13 ceiling. and I like my 2ch music and 5ch movies sometimes at high volume. Just got divorced so gonna be partying for a while . This makes me believe I need more power.

I can't go with any mono blocks. Way out of my budget. So that leaves me with these options from McIntosh that I like:

The new MC452 and its older sibling the MC352 (only used). But at one half price of the new version...

Here's my Q: how many watts should I get to drive these speakers. Does the 350w to 450w increase really worth the additional $4K? Same goes for the, should I buy another amp to increase the 200w (my MC205) to 350w or even 450w.

I've read that more power the better, more headroom, etc, and its probably true, but if the difference is only 5% better SQ, and its going to cost me $4K (MC352) or $8K (MC452), then I'll stay with what Ive got.

Read some more on the passive bi-amping, bi-cableing and its mostly a marketing or marginal (if that) increase.

So thanks again for your comments. and appreciate any comments on the power Q.

[Dreamsystem]

Originally Posted by eljr

I had the 803d's with a MC252. (250 watts per)

I told my audio guy the same thing, I felt they could use more power.

He told me, there was no need for more power, it was a want. He was correct.

Just my 2 cents.

How did you come to the 'he was correct' conclusion? Thanks

[eljr]

Originally Posted by Dreamsystem

How did you come to the 'he was correct' conclusion? Thanks

Because I went with the bigger amps and it was not an audible upgrade. It was very satisfying to me, I always wanted 500 watt blocks from McIntosh.

Filled the want perfectly. Did nearly nothing for the sound.

By all means, get the bigger amp if it makes you happy. I did, it made me happy.

JUst know why you are doing it.

peace

[Dreamsystem]

Originally Posted by eljr

Because I went with the bigger amps and it was not an audible upgrade. It was very satisfying to me, I always wanted 500 watt blocks from McIntosh.

Filled the want perfectly. Did nearly nothing for the sound.

By all means, get the bigger amp if it makes you happy. I did, it made me happy.

JUst know why you are doing it.

peace

Ok. So no real SQ difference for you with a 250w increase when using the same brand amps. Thanks, good to know.