Transparent Audio PIR exposed

[Face]

Originally Posted by adhesiv

I for one have greatly enjoyed this read.

Same here, thank you.

[DesW]

Excellent pointers on Shunyatas "Spin" I agree someone need to keep these Mfgs in line

and upfront AND honest with their products.

I'd certainly be looking closer at the claims in future before choosing the BRAND.

Des

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by DesW

I'd certainly be looking closer at the claims in future before choosing the BRAND.

Actually, right now Shunyata's web page and literature is one of the most open and informative in the audio industry. They openly discuss almost every component used in their products, show the units topless during shows etc.

So it a way, they did learn a lesson from the Hydra story.

I'm about to try their new ZTron line of PCs. I used to have all Anaconda Helix and then all Anaconda CX PCs and found them excellent.

[MyPal]

The website is improving.... There are still no specs on their signal cables.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by MyPal

The website is improving.... There are still no specs on their signal cables.

Steve
Who does puts specs on their signal cables? One out of a hundred companies?

Jim

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by DesW

Excellent pointers on Shunyatas "Spin" I agree someone need to keep these Mfgs in line

and upfront AND honest with their products.

I'd certainly be looking closer at the claims in future before choosing the BRAND.

Des

Respectfully, there's no "spin" with respect to Shunyata products. They're completely upfront about their concepts, designs, and product embodiments. Grant has been very forthcoming here, I've have had very informative discussions with Shunyata staff on the phone or at audio shows, and you can look up how their inventions are reduced to practice by looking up their patents. Have you actually looked up and read a Shunyata patent? I have, and reading their patents, including those on rochelle salts as a means for counteract RFI and EMI are what led to me to an experiment with their power cords. These are facts, not "spin". Regarding claims, if you want to read their claims, you would find it most interesting to read the invention claims in their patents.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by adhesiv

I for one have greatly enjoyed this read. <SNIP>
Power products still have a lot of mysticism and this industry is full of crazy stuff to extract money from those who wan to eek out every bit of performance (quantum chips, schumann resonators, shakti, bybee filters, etc). If any manufacturer wants $5000 from me they better be able to answer in great detail what I'm spending my money on.

While I complately agree with you on many audio products that have mysticism surrounding them (for example, what exactly does Synergistics Research mean by "quantum tunneling"?), Shunyata's power products aren't based on mysticism. They're based on a deep understanding of key principles of physics, chemistry, electronics and electrodynamics, etc. The DTCD measurement system was a key step in providing Caelin Gabriel with an accurate, precise (accuracy and precison are not the same thing), reproducible metrology for designing his power products with greater insight in his product designs. This is real science and engineering, not mysticism.

[thesaint519]

Originally Posted by GrantS

Hi Adam,

There were no claims of "no point to point" wiring when the pictured Hydra was manufactured, which looks to be from 2002-2004. Of course, some wiring will ALWAYS exist in all power distribution products coming from the input IEC. All Hydras now use buss straps connecting outlets and have for quite some time. At the point that we changed to buss straps and no wiring, we began talking about that. There is no longer any wiring coming off of the outlets themselves and that is what's referred to as "no point to point".

I have answered these same questions every time someone decides to post open box pictures and when refrains of "nothing in the box" are repeated. It's a difficult proposition of "damned if you do...", but I feel strongly that uninformed comments should addressed.

I do understand people looking into a Hydra, then comparing that to a box with a ton of parts or a transformer, choke or coil and thinking "wait a minute?" If people look a little deeper at our approach, the materials or parts themselves and how they differ-- and the design credibility behind the products, there might be reluctance to so quickly judge.

First of all, there are filter networks in the boxes in addition to what is clear on the pictures. Currently, all Hydra models have a 30 element filter board in the units. These micro-filters are computer modeled to address the specific frequencies of noise that are common to power supply emissions and the power line. We developed that design point of view. We are also the only manufacturer in the industry using these unique components and approach. Our focus is to improve peak current transfer, eliminate the variable effects of common reactive devices and to provide passive means of eliminating system generated noise.

To DIY any current Hydra would be quite impossible, despite what the Ten Audio gent suggested in what, 2005? BTW, that entire article was written after he asked us for a sample "review" unit and I politely declined to provide one. What was to be a "review" if we went along with his give-me-your-product request, turned into a DIY project of a 2001 product when we declined. He made sure to tell me "we'd pay" for declining the product loan. And what did he make? A Home Depot strip with some capacitors for (his cost) $120? The unit he ripped open retailed for $695. Do the math on that. Time/Labor/Overhead on his power strip? That retail price would be $700 something.

We have used open box units for years at shows. We've posted pictures on our web and described our approach in great detail, which is a passive parts and material quality POV. Putting "more" in the box that could include chokes, coils, capacitors, transformers etc only complicates power delivery and adds performance variables/degradation-- again, from our perspective. If heavy, parts laden power boxes make more sense to some for delivery power to high-fidelity systems, that's fine.

Our pricing model is extremely aggressive. We do not compete (at all) using better dealer margins against competitors. We compete and have succeeded in the market ONLY based on performance, explainable technology and giving more for the money to consumers. Our products resale value, our professional resume and the support we receive from electronics and speaker manufacturers supports that assertion. The reviews from multiple US and overseas publications in wildly varying systems would also indicate we are not just blowing smoke.

This is a competitive business. In an era where real technologies are protected and held secret, we describe and say a lot about what we do, how we do it and what is in our boxes. I travel with clear top Hydras when visiting dealers, so this is hardly an episode of "exposed". It's just unfortunate that so much opinion gets tossed around without any real context.

If people have specific questions they are free to call or write to us and I'd be happy to help.

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

Thanks Grant. In the era when customer service and credible information is sorely lacking, it's refreshing to know that there are still some companies that are not disconnected from their target audience. You could've easily had someone else answer this forum audience. But to see that you took the time to answer this forum means a lot to me. Thanks again.