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Old 10-16-2013, 07:09 AM
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Default Power Cord Possibilities

I have to keep the naming conventions consistent . . .

First, unlike my preamp and speaker threads, this one starts out not as a "what if" but as "plan to buy." I would like to clean up my power cord situation, not for sonic but for style reasons.

Currently there are three brands of power cords in my setup, as you can see from my signature: WW Stratus is on the CD, main BDP, Furman SPR-20i (via adapter) and the TV; WW Aurora is on the C2300; and WW Electras are on the 501s; all are 5.2. There are PS Audio Jewel ACs on the LD player, tuner, Oppo BDP, VPI SDS, the Duo VP and the Furman Elite. Finally, I have a Shunyata Venom extension cord connecting everything to the wall. The extension is necessary due to the room layout. I plan to replace the Jewel ACs on the LD and tuner with WW Stratus, thus sources will be uniform (except for the TT, which is a captive cord). My Aragon IPS (power supply for the phono preamp) is using the stock cord also.

It's the power setup that I'm most concerned with. I have nothing against the Jewels, but the two Furmans are on adjacent shelves and I don't like the 2m Jewel connecting them; I want something shorter. I could move the 1m Jewel from the Oppo to the Furman Elite and put the Oppo's stock cord back on (which I just thought of), but the stock cord is too long also. The Oppo doesn't play through the system, so I'm not concerned about uniformity, but that may call for another Stratus.

The biggest question is how to handle the power conditioner connections. There is a 3m Stratus on the SPR which the Venom then takes to the wall. I am thinking of a 3m Venom or Venom HC to replace the Stratus. The concern there is that the cord would be useless or create clutter in a future setup where an extension or long cord isn't needed. The other option is the 12AWG, 25 ft. extension cord I have which would allow me to get a better power cord for the SPR. The problem there is that the 25 ft. is WAY too long for my current needs and would create its own clutter. The idea is to shorten power cord runs, not make them longer.

Transparent also makes power cords, the Performance and High Performance PowerLink in particular. I could get a custom Performance (5m) and run it all the way to the wall. Or a 3m High Performance, and keep the Venom in place. Now that's four brands of cord! Whatever I decide on the SPR will be duplicated on the Elite in a 1m version.

There is also the matter of speaker cables. I would like shorter runs on my speaker cable. The choices are Kimber 12TC (Hero IC is currently on all sources) and Transparent MusicWave Plus (MusicLink Plus IC connects pre and power amps). We're talking about two 4 ft. pair of either. The Transparent would be $1790, the Kimber about half that. I don't necessarily like the color of the Kimber's jacket, but at $900 less I could learn to live with it (by the way, anyone who has experience with both is welcome to chime in).

For whatever reason I obsess with these things. If anyone has an idea which will clear through my clutter, whether philosophical or practical, feel free. There are too many expenses (plane tickets for one) coming up for me to spend a lot of money, but I am set to resolve this and want the most sensible way. I've thought of one as I've typed, but will sit with it for a day or two.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:04 PM
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You are giving us a lot of information with a lot of dfferent components and PCs. It would help if you made a diagram showing the physical layout of the room with accurate scale locations of racks, power conditioners and the location of the outlets.

Then give a more clear understanding of what you want to achieve.

Some wide-angle photos of the room and eq might help also.

Perhaps deal with the signal cables separately as this is complicated.

cg
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
You are giving us a lot of information with a lot of dfferent components and PCs. It would help if you made a diagram showing the physical layout of the room with accurate scale locations of racks, power conditioners and the location of the outlets.

Then give a more clear understanding of what you want to achieve.

Some wide-angle photos of the room and eq might help also.

Perhaps deal with the signal cables separately as this is complicated.

cg
Hello Mr. Gabriel,

What I really want to do is streamline my cord setup and in the most practical, affordable way possible. This is not about sound, really, but about efficiency and reducing clutter. I am in the midst of a massive clean-up and don't have any current photos. I do have some pre-clean-up ones from a few months back and earlier, and am a bit embarrassed with them because I hadn't dusted in a long time and it's an old building so dust gathers quickly, especially around electronics. Nevertheless, I've attached a few.

I had thought it might be good to have both Furman units (on the bottom shelves of the center rack) with the same brand of cord. Currently the Elite bottom right) is connected to the SPR via a 2m PS Audio (it's the one on the floor, looping out from the pack in the rear shot of the system). That's much too long. The easy thing would be to get another WW Stratus since that's what is on the SPR, but your gracious, helpful presence on this forum has me thinking about Shunyata cords, and whether I should get perhaps a Venom/Venom HC for the SPR to use with the Venom extension already in place, or use my 25 ft. extension and move up to a Viper. I don't know which of those options, as a practical matter, is better (I do think the longer extension cord defeats the purpose or reducing clutter, however). Perhaps you'd have ideas on that.

I also made a PDF of an old floor layout of the living room. This is a one bedroom apartment so space is limited. The room is 14 x 18.5. The black boxes are where the wall plugs are. The one the system is plugged into is just to the right of the rack in the last photo and on the left wall in the PDF.

I have some velcro strips to use for the interconnects, and that will help some. I also want to go from 6' runs of speaker cable to 4'. I won't be doing all this at once, as there are too many other expenses to contend with in the coming months, but I'd like to start, at least.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0114.jpg (80.6 KB, 355 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_0094.jpg (92.2 KB, 307 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf apt layout.pdf (48.9 KB, 23 views)
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:27 AM
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Well, without being there and sitting down with you I don't see a way to make specific suggestions by using your existing cables. So, let me make some general suggestions.

You have a complex system with many components including audio and video. In such a system, there are many cables to interconnect and power everything. Then you end up with the tangled mess that you have in the back of the system. This is also one of my personal pet peeves about entertainment systems. The ultimate and best solution is to build a false wall or custom cabinetry that allows access to the rear so that all of the cabling is hidden.

The racks you have are a very open type that allows you to see through. If you acquired a different entertainment cabinet with a baseboard, you could achieve much of the same effect that you would get with a false wall setup.

Most power cords are about 6-8 feet long whiich is usually too long when you have a central power distributor. This means that there is a lot of excess wire that drops to the floor and can potentially interfer with the signal cables. Try to first organize your equipment so as to minimize the lengths of interconnects to each component. Then if possible arrange the components that are vertically stacked by the location of the power inlet. This means to pay attention to which side the power inlet in located. Arrange the componenets with the inlet on the left together vertically and vice-versa right sides. This allows you to run the power cabling vertically up the rack on a single side of the rack. Then these cords can be bundled together with velcro straps. (You should never bundle power cord AND signal cables together but it is allowable with power cords. BTW, never wrap power cords around a rack column or support if made of metal. This will induce harmful currents in the rack.)

With the components arranged, then you could have custom power power cords built to specific lengths so that the cords do not hang down to the floor. Usually it is best to use power cords that are not too thick, stiff or oddly shaped (flat) because this makes it difficult to route the cables where you want them to go. This creates a more orderly appearance and can improve performance by minimizing potential interference issues. This is what we do in PRO installations where the number of components and cabling is very complex.

Very sorry I couln't help you with more specific advice.

Let's see if the guys here have any good suggestions.

cg
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Last edited by CGabriel; 10-18-2013 at 01:01 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
Well, without being there and sitting down with you I don't see a way to make specific suggestions by using your existing cables. So, let me make some general suggestions.

You have a complex system with many components including audio and video. In such a system, there are many cables to interconnect and power everything. Then you end up with the tangled mess that you have in the back of the system. This is also one of my personal pet pieves about entertainment systems. The ultimate and best solution is to build a false wall or custom cabinetry that allows access to the rear so that all of the cabling is hidden.

The racks you have are a very open type that allows you to see through. If you acquired a different entertainment cabinet with a baseboard, you could achieve much of the same effect that you would get with a false wall setup.

Most power cords are about 6-8 feet long whiich is usually too long when you have a central power distributor. This means that there is a lot of excess wire that drops to the floor and can potentially interfer with the signal cables. Try to first organize your equipment so as to minimize the lengths of interconnects to each component. Then if possible arrange the components that are vertically stacked by the location of the power inlet. This means to pay attention to which side the power inlet in located. Arrange the componenets with the inlet on the left together vertically and vice-versa right sides. This allows you to run the power cabling vertically up the rack on a single side of the rack. Then these cords can be bundled together with velcro straps. (You should never bundle power cord AND signal cables together but it is allowable with power cords. BTW, never wrap power cords around a rack column or support if made of metal. This will induce harmful currents in the rack.)

With the components arranged, then you could have custom power power cords built to specific lengths so that the cords do not hang down to the floor. Usually it is best to use power cords that are not too thick, stiff or oddly shaped (flat) because this makes it difficult to route the cables where you want them to go. This creates a more orderly appearance and can improve performance by minimizing potential interference issues. This is what we do in PRO installations where the number of components and cabling is very complex.

Very sorry I couln't help you with more specific advice.

Let's see if the guys here have any good suggestions.

cg
Actually, that's good information, even if general. Some I'd thought of, but some I hadn't, and that was the point of putting the whole scenario out there. My audiophile genes don't run as deeply as many here, and it made sense to me that someone else may have an idea I wouldn't think of (for example, not wrapping power cords around metal; I hadn't thought of doing that and now won't, for sure). Shorter speaker cable runs will get them away from the outside racks, as I have them running inside the racks to minimize the slack; they're those blue/black cables in the foreground of each rear photo. I will velcro the interconnects, as I had them before, but will velcro the power cords separately if necessary. Looking at the back of the racks, I could get away with 1.5m cords and even 1m in some places if I arrange things right. Some of the source components are set based on their power inlet, but mostly are set based on nearness to source material (i.e., the laserdisc player is positioned near the laserdiscs) and according to rack spaces (the same player doesn't fit in the center rack).

This could mean replacing more than the 2 or 3 cords I first thought, if I want to do it right; even most of them, perhaps. This project isn't going to be complete quickly, for sure. The more I think about it, the bigger it's getting.

Thanks for your very helpful input and suggestions, Mr. Gabriel.
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Last edited by prepress; 10-19-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
Well, without being there and sitting down with you I don't see a way to make specific suggestions by using your existing cables. So, let me make some general suggestions.

You have a complex system with many components including audio and video. In such a system, there are many cables to interconnect and power everything. Then you end up with the tangled mess that you have in the back of the system. This is also one of my personal pet peeves about entertainment systems. The ultimate and best solution is to build a false wall or custom cabinetry that allows access to the rear so that all of the cabling is hidden.

The racks you have are a very open type that allows you to see through. If you acquired a different entertainment cabinet with a baseboard, you could achieve much of the same effect that you would get with a false wall setup.

Most power cords are about 6-8 feet long whiich is usually too long when you have a central power distributor. This means that there is a lot of excess wire that drops to the floor and can potentially interfer with the signal cables. Try to first organize your equipment so as to minimize the lengths of interconnects to each component. Then if possible arrange the components that are vertically stacked by the location of the power inlet. This means to pay attention to which side the power inlet in located. Arrange the componenets with the inlet on the left together vertically and vice-versa right sides. This allows you to run the power cabling vertically up the rack on a single side of the rack. Then these cords can be bundled together with velcro straps. (You should never bundle power cord AND signal cables together but it is allowable with power cords. BTW, never wrap power cords around a rack column or support if made of metal. This will induce harmful currents in the rack.)

With the components arranged, then you could have custom power power cords built to specific lengths so that the cords do not hang down to the floor. Usually it is best to use power cords that are not too thick, stiff or oddly shaped (flat) because this makes it difficult to route the cables where you want them to go. This creates a more orderly appearance and can improve performance by minimizing potential interference issues. This is what we do in PRO installations where the number of components and cabling is very complex.

Very sorry I couln't help you with more specific advice.

Let's see if the guys here have any good suggestions.

cg
One of the advantages of the Sanus Euro racks is the cable management openings at the rear of each shelf. I haven't taken full advantage of those, in part because my IC lengths don't accommodate that in a few cases. I do use them to help offset the extra-long (in my current setup) speaker cables, and maybe I could reroute a power cord or two once shorter speaker cables are in place.

And though it's the least problematic in terms of clutter, for the power conditioners I have contacted Shunyata for help on ballpark pricing for 5m and 1m (15A) Venom HCs, as well as a 3m and a 1m Venom 3. Since my system doesn't pull much power (around 5.5A when watching DVDs) 12AWG is plenty, so I have the option of keeping things as is or going for at least a 1m version of something to connect the two Furmans. The 2m Jewel AC there now must go!

But before I replace every power cord with a shorter one I should work things through more carefully first. Holiday season is coming and I've already spent extra on plane tickets, so money might be an issue short-term. For now the only obvious move is replacing the speaker cables with shorter runs. I haven't had much chance to do detailed analysis because it's been so hectic. I worked OT every day but one for the last 2 weeks, plus a full day yesterday. Combined with necessary time for lesson preparations (I'm a Sunday school teacher at my church), there's been little time to concoct any serious plans of action. My first thought is to simply bundle ICs and then power cords with velcro strips to see how that looks first. That may tell me where to go next.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:25 AM
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Still considering whether to put Venom HCs on my MC501 amps. Not because I need them but I'm curious about the sound and if it would be different from the WW 5.2 Electras I have now. The same curiosity exists about the Kimber PK10s. If I went with something else the question would be what to do with the Electras; I think they're too good to sit idle. I have one idea, which is to chain them via WW's adaptor and if they don't quite get to the wall I'd keep the Venom extension in place. That's extra length (6m vs. 5m), but that's okay. Or chain one Electra to the Stratus already in use, eliminating the extension. All this must be considered in light of an expensive vacation, about $1700 total, plus the real possibility of having to replace my home printer. While in Texas I came across a dealer who sold both Kimber and Shunyata, but he was appointment only and I wasn't in a position to wait for a return call to set up one, and certainly not for a power cord. Again, this is more about efficiency and clutter reduction, but if the sound improves as a result, that's fine too.

Meantime I got some shorter HDMI cables for a reconfig with my VP just before leaving for the holidays. I have ideas on that, too.

Maybe I'll work on things or at least decide some things and make progress before returning to work Monday.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CGabriel View Post
BTW, never wrap power cords around a rack column or support if made of metal. This will induce harmful currents in the rack.
My rack consists of four maple shelves, one 4" thick, and three 2" thick. They are supported by six 48" steel rods. I do have power cords, Z Cobra, Velcro attached to the two end rods in the rear for strain relief. The cords are not wrapped around the rod, but just touch the rod where the Velcro is applied. My feeling is since wood is an insulator the cables being attached to the rod are not causing any interference. At least I hope so.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
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My rack consists of four maple shelves, one 4" thick, and three 2" thick. They are supported by six 48" steel rods. I do have power cords, Z Cobra, Velcro attached to the two end rods in the rear for strain relief. The cords are not wrapped around the rod, but just touch the rod where the Velcro is applied. My feeling is since wood is an insulator the cables being attached to the rod are not causing any interference. At least I hope so.
No problem.

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Old 01-05-2014, 03:27 PM
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It was an interesting time while away on vacation from 12/19 to 12/30. I watched the Weather Channel and saw the crazy weather all over the country with winter storm Gemini. I watched with some concern that the southern part of it would spin up strong, even dangerous storms over the weekend before Christmas. I would be flying into the path of this by flying into Nashville 12/19. Sure enough, the nasty weather was to hit Nashville Saturday the 21st.

I was at an extended stay hotel, on the first floor, watching weather updates during the day on the 21st. I finally turned off the TV after the New Mexico Bowl, won by Colorado State in a real interesting game, especially at the end. At about 8:45pm I hear what sounded like a tornado siren. I went out to the front lobby but saw no one behind the counter. The siren stopped. I went back to my room.

A couple of minutes later, the sirens start again. I go out to the front desk; the clerk is there. Yes, he hears the siren and is monitoring the storm's progress on radar. He has it up on the display at the front desk, in fact. The storm is currently in downtown Nashville; the hotel is northeast of there. It should get to us in about 15 minues, he said. If need be he will take necessary action. Not being reassured much by that, I went back to my room and gathered some essentials should I need to bolt quickly. I turned on the TV for another update. A brief image of what looked like high wind reports, then the screen went black. The sirens start again as a stark message appears:

EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM
TORNADO WARNING
SEEK SHELTER IMMEDIATELY

I go into the hallway and sit down on the floor, waiting. I try calling a friend, whom I first had to convince this was a potentially serious circumstance. After a short talk, I wait for . . . whatever. Others are in the hallway, not seeming to take things as seriously as I. The rain starts, the wind picks up. It rains REALLY hard for a bit along with gusts. A bit of lightning and thunder. That's over in about 15 minutes or so. The rain slacks off some but is still steady. The tornado warning is cancelled at 9:15pm, but a tornado watch continued until midnight. I decide to stay up until then just in case. Other than an occasional flash of lightning not much more happened. Ultimately, there was an inch of rain, 40 mph gusts, about 9400 people who lost power, and perhaps some minor flooding in parts of the city (A local reporter was reporting from a partially flooded parking lot).

In Texas to visit my sister 12/22–12/28, it got progressively warmer each day, and by the end of Christmas week it approached normal temps for the area (low/mid 60s; it was 47 when I arrived Monday). I couldn't get her to agree to a record cleaning machine for Christmas, so I got her a Pro-Ject record cleaning brush and some Nitty Gritty sleeves to replace the paper ones. A minor victory, as she's not a gadget person at all. I wanted to go by a store selling Shunyata and Kimber power cords hoping to make some comparison, but the store's appointment only; not for a power cord, I thought. Plus, I was leaving town the next day and didn't want to wait for the guy to call back. Oh well.
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