MB100: Hard Drive [SSD] + RAM Upgrade Instructions

[Bobone]

Thanks!

[substance]

Originally Posted by Bobone

Wow! So you are actually bypassing the clock. Impressive. (More on clocking further down.)

The MPS4 is conceptually identical to the MB100, but the HW was/is totally different. I have spent very much time working with the integration with multi-room systems (e.g. Nuvo Grand Concerto) and in particular a deep dive into the Autonomic MCS software & apps. If you ever have any questions, I would be happy to assist.

I gather from the quote above some order of priority?
The current 7.1 DAC is 12 yrs old (!).
Sorry for asking, but this is really not my turf and I would really appreciate some pointers:
- What mid-level DAC would you recommend? What entry-level DAC would you recommend?
I am contemplating both 2 channels and 7.1 (4pairs). (There are few quirks/limitations to the SW/license that may need to be addressed. Either to replace (preferable) or complement the current DAC)

A side observation that you may have insights to. Perhaps due to USB quality?
Background:
- MPS4 Vers 1 was built on: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...chProdSpec.pdf
- MPS4 Vers 2 was built on the very common: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...prodspec09.pdf

My observation and question:
- the original DAC is attached to a USB header on the V1
- on the V2 the same DAC is attached to some sort of small (passive?) adapter attached to a PCI Express Half-Mini Card slot.

Why would Nuvo do that? Does the PCIe slot provide better quality?

(As a "V3" upgrade I have done a very moderate test with a Mitac PD10BI running a Celeron J1900 on Bay Trail. (The very first 64-bit architecture...)
The test works fine. I need the unlikely four simultaneous audio flows to even get close to 50% CPU on Win7. I am running other SW on top, so I am likely to upgrade again.)

There are some differences between the MB100 and MMS-5a.

MMS-5a uses the analog 7.1 outputs of the AsRock motherboard for the 4x 2ch analog outputs. AsRock motherboard also has a digital coax header which MMS-5a use for its digital coax output. These outputs are ok at best.

On the MB100 these headers are not used. Mcintosh dac board connects to an internal usb 2.0 header. Mcintosh board converts usb audio to coax/optical and also has the es9016 chipset to convert to analog. This is the proper way of doing it. Mcintosh has isolation circuits in appropriate locations on this dac board. I have nothing bad to say about it.

I plan to get a Mcintosh D1100 external dac. That’s why I am investing into the usb output of the MB100. It is a little bit of a hobby to me. I don’t think what I change will make a significant improvement to audio. Most good dacs will reclock the signal and ignore what’s coming. Lowering the noise floor however can help significantly. The provided meanwell branded switchmode power supply is actually very clean and stable. I use a Keces P8 linear supply which lowers the noise floor a bit further.

To answer your questions, there is not much you can do with the 4x2ch outputs. Use these for your outdoors, kitchen etc where you don’t need excellent sound. Use the usb output for the best sound quality but you can only have 1 usb device. The sw won’t recognize a second one.

An inexpensive good dac would be Audioquest Dragonfly Red or Cobalt. You can also use a Mcintosh D100 for something a little better. D150 also works but the additional features on the D150 is not used on the MB100. These are relatively inexpensive (in the Mcintosh realm) in the used market.

I don’t know if you noticed, SiriusXM messes up the software. It takes a lot longer to boot for sure.

[substance]

Originally Posted by Bobone

Wow! So you are actually bypassing the clock. Impressive. (More on clocking further down.)

The MPS4 is conceptually identical to the MB100, but the HW was/is totally different. I have spent very much time working with the integration with multi-room systems (e.g. Nuvo Grand Concerto) and in particular a deep dive into the Autonomic MCS software & apps. If you ever have any questions, I would be happy to assist.

I gather from the quote above some order of priority?
The current 7.1 DAC is 12 yrs old (!).
Sorry for asking, but this is really not my turf and I would really appreciate some pointers:
- What mid-level DAC would you recommend? What entry-level DAC would you recommend?
I am contemplating both 2 channels and 7.1 (4pairs). (There are few quirks/limitations to the SW/license that may need to be addressed. Either to replace (preferable) or complement the current DAC)

A side observation that you may have insights to. Perhaps due to USB quality?
Background:
- MPS4 Vers 1 was built on: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...chProdSpec.pdf
- MPS4 Vers 2 was built on the very common: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...prodspec09.pdf

My observation and question:
- the original DAC is attached to a USB header on the V1
- on the V2 the same DAC is attached to some sort of small (passive?) adapter attached to a PCI Express Half-Mini Card slot.

Why would Nuvo do that? Does the PCIe slot provide better quality?

(As a "V3" upgrade I have done a very moderate test with a Mitac PD10BI running a Celeron J1900 on Bay Trail. (The very first 64-bit architecture...)
The test works fine. I need the unlikely four simultaneous audio flows to even get close to 50% CPU on Win7. I am running other SW on top, so I am likely to upgrade again.)

V1 is using the USB header and the board act as a usb hub.
V2 sounds like using the pcie and acts a usb host which typical requires driver install.

No difference in sound quality unless the host card on the pcie is significantly better built. I doubt it.

I like the MB100 because it matches the rest of my Mcintosh gear. Otherwise the new MMS-5e has significantly better sw and linux based. Mcintosh MS500 still use the same Windows CE platform as the MB100 therefore can’t use the new Autonomic app.

[Bobone]

Thank you for your insights!

I wonder if I could find a decent 7.1 DAC to attach directly to the board
- any suggestion?
(I have fiddled quite a lot with the software. I do think that it would be possible to replace the current 7.1 USB DAC on the Nuvo.)

If you don't think that there is anything reasonable (approx Dragon Fly price), I will go for a 2 channel external USB DAC. With an external power supply, I suppose!?
- Not like the Dragon flies. Or do they manage to circumvent the power issues well enough?

[Bobone]

So do the MMS-5A, MB100 and MB500 all run WinCE?

I thought that they were running Win7e?

The Nuvos were shipped with WinXPe, but mine is upgraded and running Win7 Pro. MCS 5.35 runs as 32bit SW, but native Win7 and not XP compatibility mode. (5.0 had to)
It is possible to run on Win10 as well, with unclear benefit. The audio architecture is somewhat different, but I doubt if it could take advantage of it.

BTW, these drivers are "shipped" with the MCS (data folder):

<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/05ad_0fba.exe" pn="USB to Serial cable" vn="Gigaware" pid="0fba" vid="05ad"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/0644_8038.exe" pn="USB DAC" vn="Teac" pid="8038" vid="0644"/>
<device d="1" pn="iDecco" vn="Peachtree Audio" pid="2704" vid="08bb"/>
<device d="255" pn="USB to Serial cable" vn="Radio Shack" pid="4026" vid="1453"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/17ae_0005.exe" pn="M51 DAC" vn="NAD" pid="0005" vid="17ae"/>
<device d="1" pn="DAC-iT USB DAC" vn="Peachtree Audio" pid="7022" vid="1852"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/1e8c_0002.exe" pn="Debussy DAC" vn="dCS" pid="0002" vid="1e8c"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/21b4_0260.exe" pn="Alpha USB" vn="Berkeley Audio Design" pid="0260" vid="21b4"/>
<device d="1" pn="DragonFly" vn="AudioQuest" pid="0081" vid="21b4"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2349_03e8.exe" pn="C48/C50 Preamp (Min McIntosh FW 2.0 REQUIRED)" vn="McIntosh" pid="03e8" vid="2349"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2616_0101.exe" pn="Perfectwave" vn="PS Audio" pid="0101" vid="2616"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2616_0102.exe" pn="Perfectwave" vn="PS Audio" pid="0102" vid="2616"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2673_0121.exe" pn="121Decoding Computer" vn="Wadia" pid="0121" vid="2673"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/270a_0002.exe" pn="Transient MKII" vn="CIAudio" pid="0002" vid="270a"/>

Any decent DAC as far as you know?

[Bobone]

Correction (I cannot edit yet):
- The MS500 runs the new Linux version of the MCS afaik.

[Bobone]

Oops, it's the MB50 that is Linux.
(I read an incorrect MS500 review that made me confused)

So... the MS500 is the last piece of HW designed for the MCS in the Windows version. Would you know which mobo is used?

Sorry for all the questions. Hopefully you can follow them and like the topic.

My main question remains which 7.1 USB DAC card or external USB DAC you would consider as I am looking for a replacement.

[substance]

Originally Posted by Bobone

Thank you for your insights!

I wonder if I could find a decent 7.1 DAC to attach directly to the board
- any suggestion?
(I have fiddled quite a lot with the software. I do think that it would be possible to replace the current 7.1 USB DAC on the Nuvo.)

If you don't think that there is anything reasonable (approx Dragon Fly price), I will go for a 2 channel external USB DAC. With an external power supply, I suppose!?
- Not like the Dragon flies. Or do they manage to circumvent the power issues well enough?

On the MMS-5a, the additional daughterboard which the 4x2ch analog outputs and digital coax are on, is not a DAC. It taps to the 7.1ch analog output header on the motherboard. The daughter board simply converts this header to analog rca outputs. The DAC is happening on the motherboard.

The operating system would see most other DACs but I don’t know if the Autonomic software would utilize all. I tried connecting various different DACs. Autonomic sw only recognized 2ch DACs and only 1 at a time.

[substance]

Originally Posted by Bobone

Thank you for your insights!

I wonder if I could find a decent 7.1 DAC to attach directly to the board
- any suggestion?
(I have fiddled quite a lot with the software. I do think that it would be possible to replace the current 7.1 USB DAC on the Nuvo.)

If you don't think that there is anything reasonable (approx Dragon Fly price), I will go for a 2 channel external USB DAC. With an external power supply, I suppose!?
- Not like the Dragon flies. Or do they manage to circumvent the power issues well enough?

I don’t think there is anything better in the DragonFly price range. You could probably use Dragonfly Black with similar results which is cheaper than Red and Cobalt. The latter two have better volume control which the Autonomic sw won’t use. Use a 19V linear power supply with at least 3A continuous current capability.

[substance]

Originally Posted by Bobone

So do the MMS-5A, MB100 and MB500 all run WinCE?

I thought that they were running Win7e?

The Nuvos were shipped with WinXPe, but mine is upgraded and running Win7 Pro. MCS 5.35 runs as 32bit SW, but native Win7 and not XP compatibility mode. (5.0 had to)
It is possible to run on Win10 as well, with unclear benefit. The audio architecture is somewhat different, but I doubt if it could take advantage of it.

BTW, these drivers are "shipped" with the MCS (data folder):

<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/05ad_0fba.exe" pn="USB to Serial cable" vn="Gigaware" pid="0fba" vid="05ad"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/0644_8038.exe" pn="USB DAC" vn="Teac" pid="8038" vid="0644"/>
<device d="1" pn="iDecco" vn="Peachtree Audio" pid="2704" vid="08bb"/>
<device d="255" pn="USB to Serial cable" vn="Radio Shack" pid="4026" vid="1453"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/17ae_0005.exe" pn="M51 DAC" vn="NAD" pid="0005" vid="17ae"/>
<device d="1" pn="DAC-iT USB DAC" vn="Peachtree Audio" pid="7022" vid="1852"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/1e8c_0002.exe" pn="Debussy DAC" vn="dCS" pid="0002" vid="1e8c"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/21b4_0260.exe" pn="Alpha USB" vn="Berkeley Audio Design" pid="0260" vid="21b4"/>
<device d="1" pn="DragonFly" vn="AudioQuest" pid="0081" vid="21b4"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2349_03e8.exe" pn="C48/C50 Preamp (Min McIntosh FW 2.0 REQUIRED)" vn="McIntosh" pid="03e8" vid="2349"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2616_0101.exe" pn="Perfectwave" vn="PS Audio" pid="0101" vid="2616"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2616_0102.exe" pn="Perfectwave" vn="PS Audio" pid="0102" vid="2616"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/2673_0121.exe" pn="121Decoding Computer" vn="Wadia" pid="0121" vid="2673"/>
<device d="https://s3.amazonaws.com/AutonomicFeed/Devices/drivers/270a_0002.exe" pn="Transient MKII" vn="CIAudio" pid="0002" vid="270a"/>

Any decent DAC as far as you know?

I am pretty positive it is CE but it’s been a while since I looked into the sw side. It’s definitely not XP but possibly 7.

I don’t have an executable copy of autonomic sw. I kept the original hard drive and cloned it to SSD. I don’t know how you would migrate the sw to win 10.