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#1
06-17-2011, 09:46 AM
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Separates vs Integrated
Hey everyone,
I am sure this has been addressed a million times over. I just need a bit of clarity for my piece of mind and before I do something I end up regretting. I have the C48 and MC 252 combination driving a pair of B&W 802D's. I usually have a monitor of one type or another as well. I was contemplating changing to an MA7000. For simplicity and minimizing space consumption. I know the C48 has its DAC functions... but is downsizing a good idea audibly? Thanks everyone in advance... 
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#2
06-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
For your precise example I would guess that your C50 / MC252 will sound better than the MA7000. The C50 seems to be a great great preamp and is certainly better than the pre inside the 7000. But I could be wrong...
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There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats Albert Schweitzer
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#3
06-17-2011, 10:04 AM
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jpbas1.......The biggest disadvantage I see is you lose the ability to change amplifiers or preamplifiers independently. If you purchase the MA7000 you will also lose the DAC.
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Dan  STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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#4
06-17-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
 IMO the MA7000 (probably) performs just as well as the C48 or C50 / MC252 combination  I agree that separates are generally thought to be better than integrated amps, but that depends entirely on the specific separates and the specific integrated amp. The MA7000 is a very good integrated, essentially using the 252 as its amp, and the preamp section is no slouch. Eliminate the interconnects and use quality jumpers between the two sections and you have a superb combination in one, extremely good-looking box. In this particular case, I seriously doubt that one would give more clarity over the other. Move higher in the McIntosh separates chain, and the story will become different. I am quite happy with my MA7000. I've been using very good separates for many years and don't miss a thing with the Mc. Integrated amp. You might notice in my signature that I still use (good) separates in another system and I move from one to the other regularly with no feeling that I am being shortchanged by the MA7000. I don't know if the C48 and the C50 are the same in performance. I've auditioned the C46 with the MC252's in my system and didn't find any advantage sonically in that preamp over the one in the MA7000, and the amps (arguably) are the same. The C-50 and C48 are obviously a later generation than the preamp section in the MA7000's and the C46 that I auditioned, and they may have a sonic advantage over both, but the C46 sounded wonderful - it just wasn't better, in any way, than the MA7000. I just like the one box solution in the particular situation that is being addressed by the MA7000. (And, it did cost a lot less than the combo, which is important to us retired folks - at least to most of us except for Dan, who feels it is his personal responsibility to keep our national economy running smoothly!).
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....  I have a record player and a cd player and some other stuff that sounds pretty good. MAIN SYSTEM: . . . Audio Physic Caldera III Loudspeakers, Spectral DMC 30SL Preamp, Spectral DMA 250 Amp, Spectral/MIT interconnects and speaker cable, Basis Debut V Vacuum turntable, Walker Precision Speed Controller, Graham tonearm, [B]Koetsu Rosewood or Grado Statement 1 Cartridges, PASS - X-ono Phono Stage, Esoteric K03 CD/SACD Player, Lexicon RT-20 Universal Player, Exact Power EP-15A & SP-15A power regeneration and conditioning devices. Symposium Acoustics Svelte pads & RollerBlock Jr's under speakers. ASC Tube Traps, Arcici Suspense Rack System, OPPO and Cambridge Streaming Devices. DOWNSTAIRS SYSTEM: . . . Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento Speakers, JL Audio F112 Sub, McIntosh MA7000 Integrated Amp, McIntosh MVP871 Universal Disc Player, OPPO BDP-105 Blu-Ray Player, VPI Scoutmaster with periphery ring clamp, VPI SDS Motor Drive, Koetsu Pro IV, or Clearaudio Discovery Cartridges, Mark Levinson No. 25s phono stage, Wadia 170i Transport with a Meridian Bitstream 203 DAC, VPI HW-17 Pro Record Cleaning Machine, Five Richard Gray RGPC 400 devices scattered around the two systems, Arcici Suspense Rack System, Discovery Essence and Essential Cables, 14,000 ± LPs .
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#5
06-17-2011, 11:40 AM
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I like separates because I can taylor the sound by mixing tubes with solid state.
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Mike ~Your pet is your best investment~  Preamps/tuners:McIntosh C50, C46, MR88, MR73, C2200, C22ce, Cary SPL-98L Integrate amps:McIntosh MA6100, Denon PMA2000ivr Amps: McIntosh Mc602, Mc2000, Mc275 MK-V, Cary 805ae mono blocks. Speakers: JMLab Mezzo Utopia, Focal Twin6 BE, Tannoy Mini Autograph Headphones: Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1, Denon D7000, Grado RS1i, Sony MDR-SA5000, MDR-Z1000, AKG K701, and many many more Digital Sources:Sony SCD-1 & SCD777es, CDP-XA7es, 2010 Mac Mini Music Server, Amarra Mini player, Musical Fidelity V-Link & M1 DAC, Apogee Mini-DAC & Duet 2
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#6
06-17-2011, 11:57 AM
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This thread could be fun . . . May open up a real can of worms . . .
 Let us just be kind one to another . . .
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.... I have a record player and a cd player and some other stuff that sounds pretty good. MAIN SYSTEM: . . . Audio Physic Caldera III Loudspeakers, Spectral DMC 30SL Preamp, Spectral DMA 250 Amp, Spectral/MIT interconnects and speaker cable, Basis Debut V Vacuum turntable, Walker Precision Speed Controller, Graham tonearm, [B]Koetsu Rosewood or Grado Statement 1 Cartridges, PASS - X-ono Phono Stage, Esoteric K03 CD/SACD Player, Lexicon RT-20 Universal Player, Exact Power EP-15A & SP-15A power regeneration and conditioning devices. Symposium Acoustics Svelte pads & RollerBlock Jr's under speakers. ASC Tube Traps, Arcici Suspense Rack System, OPPO and Cambridge Streaming Devices. DOWNSTAIRS SYSTEM: . . . Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento Speakers, JL Audio F112 Sub, McIntosh MA7000 Integrated Amp, McIntosh MVP871 Universal Disc Player, OPPO BDP-105 Blu-Ray Player, VPI Scoutmaster with periphery ring clamp, VPI SDS Motor Drive, Koetsu Pro IV, or Clearaudio Discovery Cartridges, Mark Levinson No. 25s phono stage, Wadia 170i Transport with a Meridian Bitstream 203 DAC, VPI HW-17 Pro Record Cleaning Machine, Five Richard Gray RGPC 400 devices scattered around the two systems, Arcici Suspense Rack System, Discovery Essence and Essential Cables, 14,000 ± LPs .
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#7
06-17-2011, 01:22 PM
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JP and I have had many conversations about the MA7000. We both think it is a wonderful amp. Also the MA7000's amp section is an improved, modified version of the 252 and sounds better due to circuit layout and power supply changes. It's pre & pa can be seperated and used independantly.
My main issue was due to room placement causing the use of extermely long speaker cables. I could not afford high quality speaker cables in the required length.
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System: ML:5206,5302 Serafino's Nordost Lumin U1 RM15 Last edited by tdelahanty; 06-17-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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#10
06-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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I'm not fond of having a dac included in my pre-amp at this time. Things digital change too fast becoming outdated.
 MA7000 + external dac
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System: ML:5206,5302 Serafino's Nordost Lumin U1 RM15
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