Prioritize Speakers or Amps

[miatadan]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I always, always prioritize obtaining the best possible source first, whether that be a phono cartridge or stage, DAC, or USB streamer etc. Getting my Mac Mini out of the audio rack and into another part of the house and installing my Sonore microRendu made one of the biggest improvements for digital content I've ever done.

The other area that is a top priority is clean, grunge-free power. I've found a really good power distributor and power cord makes quite bit more of a difference than better ICs or SCs.

The best amps and speakers can't put back what gets lost at the source.

You are right on the money )))

Also found that, changing Rega Dac with USB connection from Mac Mini to Cambridge Audio CXN v2 improved sound compared to my Mac Mini as a direct source. Just like the tube phono section with adjustable load settings in my McIntosh C70 improved my turntable

Dan

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by miatadan

You are right on the money )))

Also found that, changing Rega Dac to Cambridge Audio CXN v2 improved sound compared to my Mac Mini as a direct source. Just like the tube phono section with adjustable load settings in my McIntosh C70 improved my turntable

Dan

Indeed. General purpose computers are very noisy and grungy devices, especially their power supplies and gigahertz bandwidth CPUs and GPUs.

[Charles]

I have to agree with the folks that suggest the speakers first: 800 D3 fantastic speaker that you can build a whole system around and keep for many years. Then the amp and preamp: 611 amps if you can afford them. Again you can keep them for years. Then sources. Then power. It takes years to fully put together a high end system, if you are on a budget but in my opinion the speakers make the most difference. Just remember, it's all gonna sound really good initially and with the 800 D3's and 611's in place you can make it sound better and better by upgrading sources and power for years.

[bigblue]

IMO a 2000 USD source paired with a 10 000 USD pair of speakers will sound better that the other way around.

[ufguy73]

Thanks everyone for their help and feedback, so far!!

It seems like depsite what Magnolia is saying, it makes sense to start with the 800's, if i know that I would eventually want them.

So, i would like to see what you think of this initial system:

- D1100 (I want the C1100, eventually and the connection/aesthetic combination with the D1100 makes a lot of sense)

- MC611's (i think the only other option here would be drop down to the MC462 - but the savings is not huge and if I can get the amps that would probably be the last amps I buy for the system....excluding going crazy and getting 1.25's some day...maybe makes sense to do now)

- B&W 800's (loved these speakers when i first saw them and love them from in-store listening)

So, that would be the system to start (including several thousand dollars of cabling Magnolia is suggesting - Audioquest Thunder and Oak series I think).

The advantages to me are it lets me add future, complementary components (c1100, phono amp, phono, etc) without any redundancy to what i would be getting now - and it gives me a great digital setup, which can last me until i get more into vinyl with those additional pieces.

Assuming the above makes a lot of sense, I still have some outstanding questions:

- I would still need a digital streaming device. magnolia was suggesting a Bluenote and though I obviously dont want to spend for no value the fact that its a $500 unit worries me if its on par with the rest of the system. i see other units like Aurender and Auralic that are several thousand dollars - but i dont know if that is more due to a DAC that may be there (and therefore not as important with the d1100) or if its just not needed to spend that much on a streamer.

- the d1100 seems to be more limited than devices like Aurender and Auralic in terms of formats it can accept...i would sort of be deliving into the digital streaming world for the first time (i really only have an itunes library right now) and so I don't know how significant those unsupported formats are in real life application

- how would the d1100 preamp hold up in this type of interim, digital swtup for now - i had eben looking at the c1100 which obviously is a great preamp...I am hoping, though, that if only dealing with digital the d1100 preamp would still sound phenomenal in the system?

Anything i may be missing in thinking about this?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

Thanks everyone for their help and feedback, so far!!

It seems like depsite what Magnolia is saying, it makes sense to start with the 800's, if i know that I would eventually want them.

So, i would like to see what you think of this initial system:

- D1100 (I want the C1100, eventually and the connection/aesthetic combination with the D1100 makes a lot of sense)

- MC611's (i think the only other option here would be drop down to the MC462 - but the savings is not huge and if I can get the amps that would probably be the last amps I buy for the system....excluding going crazy and getting 1.25's some day...maybe makes sense to do now)

- B&W 800's (loved these speakers when i first saw them and love them from in-store listening)

So, that would be the system to start (including several thousand dollars of cabling Magnolia is suggesting - Audioquest Thunder and Oak series I think).

The advantages to me are it lets me add future, complementary components (c1100, phono amp, phono, etc) without any redundancy to what i would be getting now - and it gives me a great digital setup, which can last me until i get more into vinyl with those additional pieces.

Assuming the above makes a lot of sense, I still have some outstanding questions:

- I would still need a digital streaming device. magnolia was suggesting a Bluenote and though I obviously dont want to spend for no value the fact that its a $500 unit worries me if its on par with the rest of the system. i see other units like Aurender and Auralic that are several thousand dollars - but i dont know if that is more due to a DAC that may be there (and therefore not as important with the d1100) or if its just not needed to spend that much on a streamer.

- the d1100 seems to be more limited than devices like Aurender and Auralic in terms of formats it can accept...i would sort of be deliving into the digital streaming world for the first time (i really only have an itunes library right now) and so I don't know how significant those unsupported formats are in real life application

- how would the d1100 preamp hold up in this type of interim, digital swtup for now - i had eben looking at the c1100 which obviously is a great preamp...I am hoping, though, that if only dealing with digital the d1100 preamp would still sound phenomenal in the system?

Anything i may be missing in thinking about this?

I can't help too much with the streaming. I use a D1100 in a very expensive system and am very happy with it but I know many who wouldn't be. I enjoy computer audio immensely but just have a simple setup as you can see below. I'd take their advice over mine. However, I believe you are spot on with all your definite choices, speakers (800's), amps (611's), preamp (C1100). I like your choice of Audioquest. What you are trying to decide on now is sources which is not my strong point although I personally am very happy with what I have. I don't do vinyl. I'll list my system for you. You can also see my system in the Member System Forum section under "Charles System". Good luck. You are showing a lot of wisdom.

____________________
Charles Updated System
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Coffee USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes enough to turn the room into a virtual anechoic chamber if desired; however, at present my room is significantly reflective giving me a bright, vibrant, dynamic, highly resolving, smooth sound free of harshness and grain and perfect for my taste; zero slap echo; gorgeous midrange
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet Trane split system 2.5-ton heat pump with 4 returns; active electrostatic filter and top-grade digital thermostat
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house

[PeterMusic]

D1100 may be a fine piece of gear, but a separate DAC such as the Schiit Yggdrasil paired with a DAC-less Mac preamp will get you better sound for the money.

I can't quite imagine a $500 source paired with the rest of your purchases. Aurender, Auralic, and Naim are all worth a look.

Just my 2 cents--excited for you whatever you go with from here

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by Charles

I can't help too much with the streaming. I use a D1100 in a very expensive system and am very happy with it but I know many who wouldn't be. I enjoy computer audio immensely but just have a simple setup as you can see below. I'd take their advice over mine. However, I believe you are spot on with all your definite choices, speakers (800's), amps (611's), preamp (C1100). I like your choice of Audioquest. What you are trying to decide on now is sources which is not my strong point although I personally am very happy with what I have. I don't do vinyl. I'll list my system for you. You can also see my system in the Member System Forum section under "Charles System". Good luck. You are showing a lot of wisdom.

____________________
Charles Updated System

Thanks for the thoughts, Charles - that is quite a system you have...one day, I may be able to post that I have one that is similar in many ways!

Originally Posted by PeterMusic

D1100 may be a fine piece of gear, but a separate DAC such as the Schiit Yggdrasil paired with a DAC-less Mac preamp will get you better sound for the money.

I can't quite imagine a $500 source paired with the rest of your purchases. Aurender, Auralic, and Naim are all worth a look.

Just my 2 cents--excited for you whatever you go with from here

I am quite excited too - and also felt that the Bluenote (while probably a fine device) may leave me wanting when integrating into the rest of the system.

Part of the appeal of the d1100 was the integrates DAC and preamp, within a Mcintosh box...Admittedly, perhaps if i already had the c1100 i might be more tempted by another brand and not get the d1100, though my OCD tendencies would push hard for the d1100 lol

Getting something like the c2600 or c52 (to pair with DAC-only) feels a little redundant to an eventual c1100...so, may need to wrestle with that some.

Thanks again!

[SuperD]

I would get speakers first. There are some threads here that discuss the different B&W models and how they work in different sized rooms. I never owned the v3 models but remember reading about 800 being difficult to tame in smaller rooms. If you know you'll want more power in the future and have a smaller room now, 803d3 and the 1.25kw may be the way to go. Then you can add an MC303 for center and rear channels. I don't like selling equipment, so I buy for the long term.

Dave

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

Assuming the above makes a lot of sense, I still have some outstanding questions:

- I would still need a digital streaming device. magnolia was suggesting a Bluenote and though I obviously dont want to spend for no value the fact that its a $500 unit worries me if its on par with the rest of the system. i see other units like Aurender and Auralic that are several thousand dollars - but i dont know if that is more due to a DAC that may be there (and therefore not as important with the d1100) or if its just not needed to spend that much on a streamer.


Anything i may be missing in thinking about this?

For a streamer, the best bag for your buck by far is the Sonore microRendu. You can power it with a very clean ifI iPower power supply, go middle of the road with the Small Green Computer linear power supply, or go whole hog and get an Uptone Audio LPS-1. The Sonore is a Roon endpoint, and also works with other apps e.g. SqueezeLite, HQPlayer, etc. It decodes both PCM at 24/192 and DSD. The only constraint is the microRendu requires an Ethernet cable for the streaming input. I've used an Apple Airport Express, a TPLink Wifi Extender and am presently using a TP Ethernet-over-Power adapter running a Cat 7 cable into the microRendu. I use mine with Roon Core running on my Mac Mini at the other end of the house.

Getting my Mac Mini off my audio rack and into another part of the house and removing its very noisey and garbage-y high-bandwidth CPU, GPU and concomitant noise from the Mini's crap power supply, and going with the microRendu has been one of the biggest improvements to digital playback I've ever done. I can't emphasize strongly enough the importance of getting a computer out of your audio rack.

Don't let the low price of the microRendu fool you; Chris Connaker of Computer Audiophile says the microRendu also made one of the most significant improvements to his system he's ever made.

Link to Sonore: https://www.sonore.us
There are B-stock units there for with the iFi iPower power supply for $478.

Link to Chris' review at Computer Audiophile: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...Review-Part-1/
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...Review-Part-2/

The key thing is not to let the small size or price fool you. This device is one of the finest digital transducers I've ever heard, regardless of price. Its easy to set up, and once its up and running, you can forget about it.