#21
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Exactly...
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#22
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Quote:
OP ... You didn't come in this forum to be talked out of owning McIntosh. You came here to be talked into owning McIntosh like so many others before you. You've already got the itch ... I, like a few others here, have for the most part always owned McIntosh (27 years now.). I've also owned many other fine brands in this time - including Spectral, Threshold, and others. For lack of better words, McIntosh just does it better in every way*. McIntosh allows me to focus on the media, not the gear. Grab a vintage MA6200 Integrated Amp from a reputable seller like Audio Classics and let your journey begin there. *2 channel gear is where my experience lies, be it tube or solid state ... |
#23
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I take issue with the notion that my Mc amplifier(and preamp) don't sound great. I've owned Haflers, Carvers, UREI (pro amps), Perreaux, multiple Crowns, Marantz, Audio Research, Phase Linear, Harman Kardon Citation, HHScott and others I can't remember.
I was between Levinson, Parasound Halo and McIntosh on this round since I needed high power for my current system which ruled out First Watt, tube gear, and a lot of mid priced products. I have a prejudice freely admitted: I'm not ready for switching amps/ClassD at home, only in touring amps where they make most sense to me. That was a defining issue that ruled out a pretty broad swath of less expensive gear. I settled on Mc largely by the numbers. That is, it was the most economical way to achieve my current (high amperage/high current) needs, although the Parasound monoblocks came very close to getting the nod on this round. The Pass products, which I yet retain a lot of interest in, are in another price category for equal output although I think they would be a great option should the opportunity arise. I do not feel or hear any lack of quality yet don't think I would have been dissatisfied with any of my other options. But as I said, the McIntosh specs (and guarantees to meet those specs) as well as anything else in the category and doesn't cost any more than the other high quality, high end Class A/B products I was considering. Mc is a luxury product. Compared to the Halos (in my power category), it costs about the same. I'm sure I would have been delighted with those and maybe even liked them better but I had no way to know that and frankly, Absolute Sound reviews only go so far in describing what's right for me. Same with Stereophile, but at least JA publishes comprehensive specs that AS seems to have no use for. I've never seen an objective test by the numbers on my amp and it gets little or no mention in the high end journals. That's I suppose a result of Gordon Gow's negative reaction to subjective tests so many years ago. Mc rarely releases/released gear for subjective testing although I suspect that may change going forward. I wish they would, but I understand why they haven't. There's a lot to wade through in selecting top tier gear but in the end, I decided I didn't want any fuss or issues down the road so that guided my decision to a large degree as well. Since I put less stock in cables, don't hear huge differences between amps of similar quality and type and put more emphasis on loudspeaker quality and room treatment, the Mc stuff ticked off a lot of boxes for me this time. The subjective ratings I so often read are interesting but I only use their findings as another data point. It's my first Mc gear apart from a single MC30 I bought at an auction for peanuts (used it as decoration in my office) I really had no brand loyalty at all. I still prefer other digital products and would be highly unlikely to buy Mc speakers or their turntables, but for amps, especially if you fancy the core qualities Mc focuses on, I think the criticism is very largely unmerited. I would buy my MC452 again and feel no need to move on from it. There are so many other areas I could spend money on but my amp and speakers are here for the duration. And yes, the bass is as tight, extended and as tuneful as my room and its foibles allow for. Pick what you like be it Pass, Jolida, Emotiva, VAC, AR or Yamaha. I don't care, but I will defend Mc's latest quad balanced line of products because they are stable, safe, well balanced, beefy, sound good to me and yes, are no doubt priced accordingly. The high end offers many overpriced, over-hyped products but McIntosh amplifiers are pretty much a case of getting what you (relatively) paid for. Is there a singular (or three?) products available out there that do what I need them to do for less money? Maybe. Perhaps even probably. I have no idea what they might be as I just went through the exercise and settled on the Mc stuff this time. The high end is still the wild west and comments on fora, including this one, are worth what you pay for them. The only answer is a lot of research or at the least asking the right people the right questions. You will not find the answers that are right for you on the popular audio forums. All you'll usually get is anecdotal data. Here's my anecdote: I love my system, MC452, C52, Revel Salon2s, and not a single piece of the core rig has given me a lick of trouble and knocks everybody's socks off when they hear it. And most importantly, it pleases me every night. I wish I could have tried everything in my price class but how do you do that? Lacking that ability you pay your money and take your chances. Unless somebody has specific experience with or information about a specific piece you are considering (and you trust the source) you're only going to get so far trying to figure that out on a forum. Of all the guys who trash talk Mc gear on the um....AV forums.....none seem to have that specific experience. On those particular sites, they'll tell you meters, autoformers and protection circuits interfere with the quality and purity of sound and then go on to tell you all amps sound the same. On the tweak sites, they'll tell me how cables (with magic lumps in the cords) improve the sound and then tell you one amp sounds better than another. You have to suss this stuff out for yourself and make sense of it all to decide what's right for you, and it seems like it's always been that way. Last edited by Pampero; 04-25-2017 at 12:33 PM. |
#24
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You see Lew, you decided on your gear through thought and logic and decided using multiple factors. Good for you, and you actually made your decision exactly as I was trying to suggest! Again, McIntosh sounds great. No argument there. Does it sound the best; for some people yes, for others maybe not so much so.
You got the equipment to fulfill your needs and wants and that is excellent. I have no need or desire for the kind of massive power that the MC452 has. If I did certainly the MC452 would be in the running. For purity in sound the First Watt does what I want/need. For preamplifier, well I was seriously considering a C47 or C52 (although I really don't need the tone controls and meters of the C52). Again I am a basic person in this regards. A buddy of mine back in NY that I trust completely used my Wyred 4 Sound preamplifier for a few months. His house is pretty much a revolving door for equipment. He compared it against several pieces that he owned and has since moved on. Conrad Johnson and PS Audio top of the line pre's, the C52 (which he really liked for certain things), etc. He told me simply put, the W4S sounded amazing and he would choose it over any of the other ones. He is planning on getting one for a second system he will be putting together using some of his other "spare" pieces. He finally ordered his dream preamplifier and used the Wyred until it arrived and then sent my STP-SE back to me. The preamplifier he finally decided to keep (maybe for the long term, but with him you never know) is the Ayres KX-R Twenty which costs $27,000. This he did prefer ... As you see, we all have different needs and wants and requirements. Most importantly I am happy that you considered all of the above to make your decision on what was right for you. Excellent! Last edited by Randy Myers; 04-25-2017 at 12:55 PM. |
#25
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Some people need their own web-site.
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#26
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By the way, I often think I might have been just as well served by a C47. Or a Pass product As you know, pro users are generally very laudatory about Nelson Pass' work. Neither he nor you need my confirmation, but he's the real deal and the products he oversees in those California hills are top of the line. We're good! Last edited by Pampero; 04-25-2017 at 02:15 PM. |
#27
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I agree, Nelson is the real deal... I have had several e-mail exchanges with him and he is a very fun guy also ...
Who knows what the future will bring but if I ever decide I need a larger amplifier certainly McIntosh, Pass Labs, Audio Research, etc., would be on my short list of consideration. |
#28
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onehole150
Why McIntosh? Why not? If you buy used McIntosh amplification gear carefully you can try it out and sell it later at a profit if you find you don't like it. This is NOT true for McIntosh source equipment and AV pre/pro's, which depreciate at dramatic rates, just like other brands. While some people will argue it may be possible to do this with other brands, it will be much more difficult as new models are frequently introduced with incremental improvements that make the value of the older models drop significantly in the marketplace. I may be a bit different than others here because I look at total cost of ownership when buying gear. For example I recently sold 3 McIntosh MC 601's and an MC 2301. I owned the 601's for three years, and the 2301 for four years. I was able to sell all of them for more than I paid for them, making my total cost of ownership less than zero! That to me makes McIntosh gear an outstanding value. Tom
__________________
Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#29
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Quote:
__________________
David St. Hubbins "I believe virtually everything I read" |
#30
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Tom
Since I'm interested at this point in using a Int amp will this no cost of ownership hold. This would be a big change with what I've purchased the last 5 years ; I'd be jumping up and down if I could accomplish no cost of ownership. Clarification - I've done OK with amps, but have taken a big hit with speaks. That being said which model should I be looking for? Another clarification - I'm one of those guys that tries to inch his way up the chain and it hasn't worked that well with this audio bug. So if your going to recommend a product could you add a few words on the plus side of why. Thanks in advance. |
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