Black Mamba CX for Power Amps?

[GrantS]

Originally Posted by jayvis

Thanks for your input Grant. Your explanation seems to say that the Black Mamba CX power cord performance is purely conductor gauge dependent in high current applications. As compared to the current Venom HC (also 10 ga), how would the Black Mamba CX stack up?

My apologies for missing your question. The Black Mamba CX has a relevant design difference not related to gauge. There is a very complex, cross-helice geometry that crosses all conductors at 90 degree angles. This geometry reduces inductive field energy far beyond conventional parallel stranding. What this means is that peak-current encounters less resistive energy and gets to the power supply more efficiently than a normally stranded power cord of similar gauge, like the Venom HC.

If you view the video-link below, there is a screen capture of an oscilloscope reading showing the micro-second trace of impulse response between a Black Mamba CX and a Venom power cord--go ahead and pause that frame. They are the exact same gauge, but you see the transient trace of the BM CX power cord come up higher and faster on the graph. It's fascinating that, what we hear when comparing those two cords on a CD player, is _exactly_ what you see on the graph. Faster transient response, better timing and a rather sizable advantage for the BM CX in presenting realistic dynamic contrasts, both large and small. Go figure, two power cords of the same gauge, connector and metal quality, yet obvious and consistent measured and subjective differences. That graph especially, tells us our ears are far more attuned to discerning relevant timing detail and differences in sound than many believe.

Anyone comparing those two power cords subjectively, would agree upon seeing the graph that the measurement differences correlate directly to the perceived sound differences. These and other measurements, along with examples like the physical differences between a well-engineered outlet and commodity outlets demonstrate why electrical systems are so critical to _sound_.

[For The Love of Music]

Good information and products from our home state heroes!

[BuffaloBill]

Originally Posted by Mikado463

I suspect if the gauge of the wire in the 'stock' black cord were the same so would the current reading have been.

Exactly. We have no idea what 'stock' power cord was used in the demo. For example, is it the same quality included with McIntosh gear? Would you get the same reading difference with other 'after market' cords? What reading is required for the power supply in an amplifier to achieved the manufacturer's desired performance, i.e., what is the take-away, are we to assume the stock power cords provided by McIntosh will cause their amplifiers to underperform?

[jayvis]

Very good points guys.

[Antonmb]

I’m sure Grant or Caelin can correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t take the video as a scientific study but rather a simple, practical demonstration of how their cables can improve current delivery over the typical stock power cord. To suggest that a better or larger gauge stock cord would perform better misses the point, since, with few exceptions, to my knowledge they simply don’t exist. Boulder supplies special cords with their larger amps, but other than that, in 45 years of buying audio gear I have yet to come across a 10 gauge oem cord. And I don’t think that’s because manufacturers don’t believe in better cords, just that 1) they’re not cable companies and 2) they recognize cable choice is an individual decision. After all, some manufacturers, like Woo Audio, don’t even provide cords.

There is a lot of marketing hype and snake oil out there from many cable companies, but I think Shunyata has opted to take a higher road by actually applying real science and engineering principles, and not charging ridiculous prices compared to some others. This is evident in their ability to demonstrate real quantifiable benefits from applying their technology in medical fields, from the clearly explained no-BS principles behind their cables, and from their willingness to let us see behind the curtain.

[Mikado463]

Good reply Tony .........

[GrantS]

Originally Posted by Mikado463

yep, pretty straight forward example of Ohm's law at work ......... I suspect if the gauge of the wire in the 'stock' black cord were the same so would the current reading have been.
the Shunyata receptacle is impressive, as it should be for $95 ! given the comparison though against a garden variety $2 piece from Home Depot I wonder what the difference would be compared to a 'Hospital Grade' Leviton at 1/5 the price ?

No. That is not true, not even close.

I don't want to belabor this as I don't have time for a lot of back and forth, but I'll clarify. The problem with stock power cords isn't just "gauge". Most of the connectors have very scant, poor quality metals and in many cases, you can literally bend the pins this way and that--similar in its poorly engineered quality to the outlet you saw later in the video.

Mac and other high-end gear may sound fine with a stock power cord and if someone's happy with those, all's good. I was here answering a question. I know from 18 years of experience that the vast, vast majority of good electronics will sound a good deal better with better-than-stock power cords and there are many reasons why, not just "gauge".

There are no 15A IEC stock-power cords of any gauge that are crimped or soldered; meaning the metal conductors barely touch the metal pins at either end of the power cord and they are held in place by the molded ends. This is fine for toasters and microwaves, but not so much for analog-output electronics that pull sharply off the top/bottom of the sine wave in micro-second pulses in the service of music and sound reproduction. The wire itself in these stock cords is poor quality and has a high-resistance compared to better quality copper. Again, these stock power cords were designed for function, not performance.

The AC signal will encounter resistance at every point where there is a poor or insufficient connection or path for peak-current. When replacing or improving points of added resistance with a better outlet, better than stock power cords, or having an electrician tighten the breaker at the panel that serves your audio gear, the differences are straightforward, easy to hear in almost ANY system. In some cases the differences are quite dramatic to staggering.

The videos aren't a side-show and Caelin does know whereof he speaks, coming from a family of master-electricians and studying electrical systems during his time in the NSA. In addition, we've measured and studied all kinds of power cords and developed an entire series of our own custom-designed parts using listening and measurement. There are measurable and easy-to-hear differences in a power cord's gauge, termination method, connector quality, wire quality, wire-geometry and shielding versus no-shielding, and filtering, obviously.

Regarding the outlet comparison--there is a very similar commercially available outlet to the high-quality one you saw in the video. Its model name is a 5362 Hubbel SPEC Grade. They are _amazing_ performance wise and cost around $30, maybe less. I recommend them to all who ask and they are worth every penny. Ours are custom-modified (by Hubbel) versions of that outlet and have been cryo-treated so they perform better but its not night-day in terms of differences. Our CopperConn (solid copper) outlets are indeed an enormous improvement from either of those models, but we don't sell them; instead they are used in our Triton and Denali models.

By the way, Hospital Grade outlets are terrible in terms of sound because they apply a heavy plate of Nickel (poor conductor of current) to protect the brass pins from solvents and the wet-air environments in hospitals. They measure as highly resistive to peak-current and compared to the $30 5362 SPEC model they are well, terrible in terms of sound.

I'm happy to answer honestly asked questions whenever I can find the time.

Regards,

Grant

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by GrantS

My apologies for missing your question. The Black Mamba CX has a relevant design difference not related to gauge. There is a very complex, cross-helice geometry that crosses all conductors at 90 degree angles. This geometry reduces inductive field energy far beyond conventional parallel stranding. What this means is that peak-current encounters less resistive energy and gets to the power supply more efficiently than a normally stranded power cord of similar gauge, like the Venom HC.

If you view the video-link below, there is a screen capture of an oscilloscope reading showing the micro-second trace of impulse response between a Black Mamba CX and a Venom power cord--go ahead and pause that frame. They are the exact same gauge, but you see the transient trace of the BM CX power cord come up higher and faster on the graph. It's fascinating that, what we hear when comparing those two cords on a CD player, is _exactly_ what you see on the graph. Faster transient response, better timing and a rather sizable advantage for the BM CX in presenting realistic dynamic contrasts, both large and small. Go figure, two power cords of the same gauge, connector and metal quality, yet obvious and consistent measured and subjective differences. That graph especially, tells us our ears are far more attuned to discerning relevant timing detail and differences in sound than many believe.
<SNIP>

This makes perfect sense when you think about how our brains evolved to use this timing detail and differences in sound for survival as we evolved to Homo sapiens... There is a reason why cats are such perfect predators, their senses and brains evolved in ways that made them so effective, e.g. their ability to track prey that is moving quickly...think about the information processing their brains are performing when a cheetah is chasing down a Thompson's gazelle running and turning in unpredictable ways at 50 mph.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by GrantS

My apologies for missing your question. The Black Mamba CX has a relevant design difference not related to gauge. There is a very complex, cross-helice geometry that crosses all conductors at 90 degree angles. This geometry reduces inductive field energy far beyond conventional parallel stranding. What this means is that peak-current encounters less resistive energy and gets to the power supply more efficiently than a normally stranded power cord of similar gauge, like the Venom HC.

If you view the video-link below, there is a screen capture of an oscilloscope reading showing the micro-second trace of impulse response between a Black Mamba CX and a Venom power cord--go ahead and pause that frame. They are the exact same gauge, but you see the transient trace of the BM CX power cord come up higher and faster on the graph. It's fascinating that, what we hear when comparing those two cords on a CD player, is _exactly_ what you see on the graph. Faster transient response, better timing and a rather sizable advantage for the BM CX in presenting realistic dynamic contrasts, both large and small. Go figure, two power cords of the same gauge, connector and metal quality, yet obvious and consistent measured and subjective differences. That graph especially, tells us our ears are far more attuned to discerning relevant timing detail and differences in sound than many believe.
<SNIP?

This was exactly my point to other members a few posts back that the advantages a Shunyata power cord brings is NOT simply due to gauge; that the higher tier cords are designed as a SYSTEM of components for maximizing or minimizing key parameters that INTERACT to provide greater performance than a simple increase in cable gauge would provide.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by Antonmb

There is a lot of marketing hype and snake oil out there from many cable companies, but I think Shunyata has opted to take a higher road by actually applying real science and engineering principles, and not charging ridiculous prices compared to some others. This is evident in their ability to demonstrate real quantifiable benefits from applying their technology in medical fields, from the clearly explained no-BS principles behind their cables, and from their willingness to let us see behind the curtain.

Well said, Tony. Oh and BTW, you can read Shunyata's patents on how their designs and technologies improve the performance of their products. Their is real science and physics behind these products and to receive a patent, they have to be REDUCED TO PRACTICE, that is, demonstrated to actually work.