New Integrated?

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Rocco

Totally agree with you. Burmester builds Ultra High-End Components with cost no object. One of the best hi end manufacture. I know very well the Mcintosh line, auditioned many times their top gears and I don't like at all their sound. Here is absolutely no question for me. Burmester is in another league. Burmester is far sonically better at all all, engineering, build-quality and ability to be future-ready. I think that Burmester is the only one that qualifies as an investment and offers the true long term ownership.

P.S.: Concerning the 032 integrated amplifier, a friend of mine replaced his combo Mc 402 with c2300 preamp and joining the Burmester 032. At his opinion, he improved a lot the sound quality level.

Rocco.......Investment?

You may have auditioned McIntosh many times, but auditions are notoriously faulty and often poorly set up with a hodge pod of cables and other dissimilar components in an unflattering acoustic environment. First impressions can be extremely inaccurate under these conditions. An in home audition with your system in your room is the best way to truly discover how new components sound.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that Burmester is anything other than excellent audio equipment. I merely offered my personal opinion on the cost versus my perceived value of the product. You are entitled to think whatever you wish.

[MyPal]

Dan... Do you think the MC2301s will become a classic collectibles? How about the C1000? Perhaps the MC601s?

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by MyPal

Dan... Do you think the MC2301s will become a classic collectibles? How about the C1000? Perhaps the MC601s?

Steve.......Not before I'm dead, after which I won't give a damn.

[MyPal]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Steve.......Not before I'm dead, after which I won't give a damn.

Dan... You will surely go through many necessary tube roles before then!

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by MyPal

Dan... You will surely go through many necessary tube roles before then!

Steve.......I sure hope so. I'm not ready to go just yet.

[jdebonth]

Originally Posted by Rocco

Burmester is in another league. Burmester is far sonically better at all all, engineering, build-quality and ability to be future-ready

What I can add here, having owned a MC402 for around a year and then moving to a burmester 911 around 6 months ago (both amps are around 400W, the burmester being double in price here in europe), with all other components in the chain remaining the same, is that the Burmester is truly in another league. I was expecting a definite, yet somewhat subtle improvement, given all the positive MC402 reviews. When I first plugged in the 911 I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Every aspect of the reproduction of music improved by significant margins. I don't imagine this is a subjective preference of 1 'house sound' to another... everything simply just improved.

Burmester expensive? Yes. Industrial design not appealing to everyone... sure, however I don't think anyone can make judgments on 'value' without having heard the sound that these components produce.

I will say though that if I was located in the US and with the pricing difference and less active secondhand market the brand would simply not have been an option for me, so I can understand where some of the comments are coming from.

[Rocco]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Rocco...remember the price points in the US for Burmester gear are inflated as compared to pricing in Europe. There is an importer who has to be compensated for his troubles (establishing a dealer network in the US), plus the company also makes money on the f/x translation at their price points (the same holds true by the way for American-made products sold in Europe although in relative terms I still think Burmester charges even more of a premium in the US than do American counterparts in Europe). In any case, it's all good. I have heard the Burmester products and I am a huge fan. If I were to go SS, Burmester would be the way to go for me. I just would definitely not buy new in the US because I think the premium is a bit too high. Used would be the way to go for me on Burmester. Hope all is well.

Hi Cyril,

same situation is in Italy Mcintosh that the costs are more or less same of Burmester.

[bart]

Originally Posted by AudioNut

Costs three times as much as a McIntosh MA7000 - wonder if it sounds three times as good?

Actually I think it is not the 032 but the 082 in the pic. 2x140 W.
I compared it with the MA7000, which is much more powerful by the way.
In Belgium, the Burmester is actually the cheapest!
I chose the Burmester; for me it had just the edge in transparency, but both were close.
Maybe I also preferred the bling?!

[Rocco]

Originally Posted by AudioNut

Now, I think that statement I colored red would really be a hard statement to agree with. I can name dozens of manufacturers that would also fit that criteria. Does 50 year old Burmester sell today, used, for 5-6 times the original selling price like some older McIntosh? Talk about investment grade audio gear!

And, Rocco, I am very sorry you don't like the sound of McIntosh!

Methinks your statements are a little too absolute!

My statement is not absolute even if the true facts are well clear and visible. If you're an experienced audiophile you should know that the Burmester preamp 808 Mk5, considered one of the best preamp worldwide, exists on the market from 1980's, as well as, from 32 years; the power amp 909 and 911's exist on the markext respecitively from 1990's and 1991's and both are considered nowdays one of the best amps ever produced. These are just few examples.

For me it means a very good investement.

Please mention to me another hi-end manufacture that has the same and overall value in the years.

[Rocco]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Rocco.......Investment?

Of course this is limited to our passion. A preamp 808's and power amp 911 are on the market respectively from 1980's and 1991's, as well as 32 and 23 years. Both objects rare considered references in the worldwide audiofield.

Originally Posted by jdandy

You may have auditioned McIntosh many times, but auditions are notoriously faulty and often poorly set up with a hodge pod of cables and other dissimilar components in an unflattering acoustic environment. First impressions can be extremely inaccurate under these conditions. An in home audition with your system in your room is the best way to truly discover how new components sound.

I listened Mcintosh worldwide since 20 years, USA, Europe, Canada, Asia, Japan with a different speakers and different set-up and acoustic treatment. Moreover and when I'm at home in vacation I often listen Mc's at house of my good and closest friends. Sorry, but I conclude that the Mc's sound is not my sound. Too far from my personal reference mode to live with true music.

Originally Posted by jdandy

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that Burmester is anything other than excellent audio equipment. I merely offered my personal opinion on the cost versus my perceived value of the product. You are entitled to think whatever you wish.

Nowdays I consider a Burmester Reference Line fully cabled by Nordost Odin an absolute system in sound performance and value! But this is my taste and point of view.