Burmester 911MK3

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by Anatta

Elberoth, do you have a list of high current amps in mind to replace your Dart beside the Soulution 710? Maybe some Gryphon Colosseum (also zero global NFB design)?

To tell you the truth, I though that the 911 will be my next amp. I really had super high hopes based on all the latest internet buzz (started after a certain review).

So when a friend of mine told me he is selling his 4 months old Burmester 911 (he changed to VTL 450mk3 monos, BTW), I bought it at a heart beat. Thankfully, I havn't sold the darTZeel, 'cos after comparing it back and forth for a period of over 3 months, I eventually came to the conclusion, that I like the darTZeel better overall. 911 had this iron fisted grip on the Sasha woofers and startling clarity (if a bit Spectral like at that), but darTZeel was still smoother, more fluid and musical to my ears. It had better microdynamics too.

So at this point I kind of stuck and I'm not sure what to do next. I would like to try the Soulution gear - but from what ppl keep telling me, that will rather not be my cup of tea. There are the Momentum monos, anm my dealer has them in stock ... but those cost more I'm willing to spend (at least at this point). Same for the ultra expensive Gryphon Colosseum ... the danes went really crazy with their pricing. I'm guessing they are selling only in Asia right now.

There is the Pass XA-200.5 I haven't heard in my system, but it is 'to order only'.

So who knows, I may end up keeping the Dartzeel eventually, and get the Maxx 3 instead.

[Anatta]

Originally Posted by jdebonth

I am not ...

You can measure line level signals with this Phonic. But probably your multimeter shows you the RMS value.

Audio Testers :: PAA3 - Phonic | Manufacturing Quality Professional Audio Equipment since 1977

If you don't have the FW version how do you control the volume with the Medea?

Regarding the amp clipping, it's logical that if it gets more voltage from the source than its input sensitivity it will clip, so by lowering the output voltage of the Medea under the input sensitivity of the amp you avoid this even at full volume with no digital attenuation, that's what I meant.

[Anatta]

Originally Posted by Elberoth

... the danes went really crazy with their pricing.

Tell me about it!

I think you should listen to Audionet amps; the MAX monos are 13k Euro/pair in Germany, they will drive very well your Sashas.

In the review bellow, on W/P7 the MAXs were preferred to the 911.

Innerworld Audio - Audionet Amp Max Monoblocks

And Wilson Benesch were so impressed by their amps that became the importer in the UK.

Another high current option at saner price it's the Simaudio Moon Evo W-8RS (zero global NFB design if that's a purchasing criteria for you), about 15k Euro.

Edit

I was just looking on the spec sheet of the Accuphase A-65 amp and besides being a high current amp able to drive the Sasha, it also has the nice feature of selectable gain with 4 positions (MAX, which is 28 dB, -3dB, -6dB and -12dB); so you could set its gain at 16 dB at the lowest position, that would work very good with the Scarlatti digital attenuation.

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Having heard Parasound Halo A21, Electrocompaniet AW250R and Pass X150.5, I can tell you that was the only possible outcome ! 911 is like from other universe next to them.

But then, you could probably tell that just by looking at the price list: the other amps were in $5-$7k range, and the 911 is ... $30k !

If anything, you should have tried to compare the 911 to Pass XA-200.5 or EC Nemo. Not saying that you would have chosen them over 911, just that the comparo would be at least more fair to those brands.

You are right, of course. Except the price differences in Europe are not so extreme. Basically, the 911 was only double my budget, LOL!

The EC AW180M sounds very similar to the Nemo, as the circuits are almost identical - a Nemo is basically 2 AW180 in one box. I found the tonal response uneven, and the highs grainy compared to Burmester. I wanted to get the Burmester 956. I laughed when I saw the 956 and the 911 next to each other. They look almost identical, except the 911 has a bit of extra chrome bling, for double the price and almost no difference in power specs. I stopped laughing when I heard them. The bass was very similar, and very good, but the 956 is voiced with more upper bass, and much less treble. It sounded very dark next to the 911, and did not suit the Futura. The 956 actually worked very well with the SF Cremona M.

Power draw is a big factor for me, and I have a limit which the Pass XA series, except for the little ones, would go way beyond. I have liked Pass' smaller amps, particularly his single ended pure class A designs (I have a few of these). Gryphon was out for the same reason. I considered Sovereign, Moon and Hegel, but auditioning was going to be difficult or impossible - and I was concerned these last 3 would be too cool for my tastes. Vitus Audio is the only one I am still interested in hearing.

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by howiebrou

Tell us more Glisse!

And welcome to AA!

howie

Thanks for the welcome Howie.

This system is a Lamm LL2 Deluxe to a Wavelength Duetto 300B (which I have modified a bit) to Audio Note AN-J/Spe speakers. All signal cabling in this system is PHY-HP. Sources are an Accuphase CD player or a Teddy Pardo DAC via a Macbook Pro to a JKHiFace Mk3 USB bridge. To me, only a 300B SET can do that tonally pure, 3D mid range. But it is limited to certain types of music. Still, I never have the urge to change this system - just to listen to it. And that is a big plus!

[Elberoth]

BTW Glisse - I also have the Teddy Pardo DAC. Sounds really excellent and certainly can put many more expensive CDPs into shame. I met Teddy in person during Hi-End in Munich last year - really nice person. Kind of soft spoken, like Dave Wilson.

I recently (last week) bought the Metrum Octave DAC from Holland, that Martin Colloms raved about in the last HiFi Critic. Didn't have the time yet to compare the two though.

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by Glisse

The EC AW180M sounds very similar to the Nemo, as the circuits are almost identical - a Nemo is basically 2 AW180 in one box.

Thanks for the info - I will uncheck the Nemo on my short list

[Thimios]

Hello eveybody,

My experience with a recent tryout of Burmester 088/Burmester 909/Dart 108has been that the combination of the 088 and the Dart has been exceedingly great. I prefered the 088/Dart Combination to Dart Pre/Dart 108 and 088/909! I agree with the comments of excellent microdynamics and superb resolution for the Dart. However the Dart did not control my speakers (Peak Consut Princess) in the best possible way and definetly not as the 909.

I heard from the local distributor that Dart will be coming with a new higher power amplifier in early 2013.

I ended up ordering the 088 as a second preamp since it works magic with my current power amps (Lamm M1.2ref) and my CD (089).

[joeinid]

Hi Thimios,

Thanks for the descriptions. You have listened to some nice gear. How would you compare the Lamm M1.2 Refs vs the Dart 108?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Thimios

Hello eveybody,

My experience with a recent tryout of Burmester 088/Burmester 909/Dart 108has been that the combination of the 088 and the Dart has been exceedingly great. I prefered the 088/Dart Combination to Dart Pre/Dart 108 and 088/909! I agree with the comments of excellent microdynamics and superb resolution for the Dart. However the Dart did not control my speakers (Peak Consut Princess) in the best possible way and definetly not as the 909.

I heard from the local distributor that Dart will be coming with a new higher power amplifier in early 2013.

I ended up ordering the 088 as a second preamp since it works magic with my current power amps (Lamm M1.2ref) and my CD (089).

[Thimios]

Joe,
I have owned the Lamms since 2006 and have tried them with a variety of gear. In my view Lamm just reproduces the sound of the upstream combinations and the speakers with minimal impact. Bass is very organic and palpable but not the solid state bass you get from Burmester. Also the sound changes significantly with cables even power cable. Using Nordost Odin PC the M1.2 Ref and the Dart were very close. Perhaps the Dart has a little bit more air, is a little bit more open in the highs. With appropriate speakers the bass of Dart is more reminiscent of a good solid state amp while the bass of Lamm resembles an excellent tube amp. The Dart has better microdynamics vs the Lamms but in my view it clips more audibly and has a limited usability. The soundscape of the amps is very similar.

Hope this helps, however bear in mind that both amps ave very sensitive to the preamplification section. My comments relate with the 088 as Preamp. I am planning on updating the 6922 in the Lamms to EAT 6922 and I have a feeling that the Lamm sound will probably leap forward.

When are your new speakers coming? I am looking for new speakers and the TAD CR-1 is on my short list
Thimios