Why Shindo gets almost no review ?

[sibelius]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I've given up on the Shindo thing. They really don't want anyone other than Art Dudley to review their gear and their importer has made it clear that even if I were to buy Shindo gear AT RETAIL, I'm to "respect their wishes" and not write about it.

Really? Last I heard this country still had freedom of speech.

I've heard enough Shindo over the years to be intrigued and I certainly think the warm/romantic/delicious/whatever sound is a good idea, especially considering how mediocre most records are recorded.

But I still see this as a major cult of personality. It's well built gear, but not all that much different than very old McIntosh, Marantz etc etc in terms of sound. If you think I'm kidding, listen to a pair of MC30's, or a Marantz 8B. Very close in sound.

There is really only so much that can be done with a classic tube circuit. It can be voiced anywhere from warm to neutral to cold and everyone has their take on what it should sound like.

I guess I don't understand what they are so afraid of.

On one level, it's just like Ferrari in the sense that they keep the production low and the mystique high to keep the demand and the price high as well. Nothing wrong with that. And they are truly pieces of art, which is also cool.

So, it's just not in the cards for me to buy a full Shindo system at retail just so I can write a review about it. As it is not supposed to be used with other gear, so that the magic is not lost, it's pretty much useless as reference equipment. Maybe when I retire!

For what it's worth though, my ARC and Burmester gear works fine with every other mfr's gear that I've mixed it up with... Same with the CJ stuff. The ACT 2 and Premier 350 definitely have a synergy, but they both work great with other gear as well.

Food for thought.

IMO if you want to buy the product at retail you should be able to review it to your hearts content without any strings attached what so ever. The majority of people who buy Shindo gear at retail do not have full Shindo systems so I'm confused with that as well. I think calling it a cult of personality is a bit much as I own and enjoy the equipment and like the folks who sell it (Matt for instance is probably the last person you would think of selling audio equipment. He is extremely low key and at no time was there any pressure put on me to buy anything.) I like to think I'm pretty open minded and not a lemming when it comes to Audio. I'm close to 50 and have been doing the audio thing for a while now. I have mixed and matched Shindo preamps with other gear and feel it more than holds it own with other products I've owned. I'm guessing as long as business is good they do not need to change current marketing practices and the mystique and exclusivity thing probably actualy helps them. It's too bad because I really think Shindo's reinterpretation of vintage audio gives us the best of the old and new and wish more people could hear it.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by tonepub

But I still see this as a major cult of personality. It's well built gear, but not all that much different than very old McIntosh, Marantz etc etc in terms of sound. If you think I'm kidding, listen to a pair of MC30's, or a Marantz 8B. Very close in sound.

Unfortunately not close enough. Could have saved a lot of money.

[cmalak]

Sibellius...sent you a PM about your Tonian speakers. Thx

[adhesiv]

Jeff...I've recently found your publication and can say i like it better than any of the others, especially the focus on music and artists vs. just page after page of measurements and meaningless commentary about this or that new amp/dac/speaker on the block. It's amazing how much "reference" gear is out there based on these reviews, and one starts to get easily desensitized to class ratings or "glowing recommendations" after reading so many of them. it's unfortunate Shindo isn't as forthcoming on allowing reviews as some of the more well known, advertised and dare i say common brands. To a certain degree you may be right that the mysticism probably helps sales...Whether or not that's a calculated part of the Shindo plan, only Ken Shindo can answer for that. Do i believe it? Not really, i think the rare parts and the fact that only so many of each model can be built says that each piece really is limited edition and a review of a model today may be shortly outdated if those models can no longer be produced due to parts scarcity so huge interest and large volume sales due to lots of extremely positive reviews in every medium may not be a Shindo goal especially if they have to keep parts on hand for support...There's also the story of an early Shindo unit being reverse engineered causing Shindo to promptly discontinue that model...he really does see it as art if you ask me...in other words, i have no idea why Shindo acts the way they do but it doesn't really impact my feelings about what they produce...the performance will speak for itself and that will be my ultimate critic.

I think what drew me to Shindo was that all the private folks i've read that have these systems talk primarily about the music and not the equipment so much...and it's really about the music and not the typical hifi "criteria" which is probably why i like your publication so much since the ideology is similar.

All that said, i wouldn't knock Shindo too much for being what may appear as reviewer selective since many of the reasons people seem to really enjoy Shindo are the same reasons many people like your publication...it's just different from the mainstream but with the quality and genuine care for music at its core it's able to win over the few lucky enough to find out about them.

Looking forward to the day TONEAudio gets a chance to review a Shindo and if not I still look forward to each new edition of your awesome publication anyway

[Tonepub]

The thing that is so odd about all this is I completely agree with their approach. I would always prefer things to be on the side of "tonally rich" than overly analytical.

So, who knows? At some point we may put this together. One of you guys with a Shindo preamp want to fly out here and listen to it in my system? I'll buy you a plane ticket and put you up for an evening. That's still cheaper than me buying a preamp that I don't need.

We've got the Burmester 911, the ARC REF 150, the Pass XA160.5's, the Decware Torii and the First Watt M2 amplifiers, along with my 9 watt Woo Audio 300B SET to choose from for amplification.

That way you'll hear what I hear and you can see if I "get it."

Could be a fun project. PM me if interested.

[10Beers]

Now THAT'S what I call putting your money where your mouth is. It's refreshing to see a journalist with such testicular fortitude.
Count me as a fan.

[PHC1]

I can't speak for Ken Shindo but if I had a thing going like he does, I would want to keep it on the down low as well. Being under the hood of the Monbrison, I can tell you there is quite a bit of work that goes into it. I'm no stranger to the soldering iron, spent quite a few years doing electronics to pay my way through college. What's even more impressive is the quality of work which he obviously takes great pride in. All the point to point wiring and many tiny components that are meticulously laid out and soldered with the greatest of care, I can tell you this, I would not have the patience nor the talent with which each of his units is built and I was mil-spec soldering certified.

As far as I know, it is Ken and his Son doing the work. How many units can they build to keep up with demand? As it is, it is often a rather long wait to order a new unit from Shindo. As great as they sound when all the conditions are met in a system, the demand would far outstrip the supply. What's Ken to do? Go the printed circuit board approach of 99.9% of audio gear out there? I don't think so!

Besides that, many of the parts used in his work are vary scarce now. There are things he will no longer sell unless you are buying a whole unit. The tubes themselves are getting to be very difficult to come by as well. I was lucky enough to score NOS, still sealed, Siemens F2a tubes from a guy. That is an exception rather than rule! Granted, the way Ken designs his gear it will last forever. The F2a tubes are rated for 50,000 hrs for example. (Although they are available from dealers to owners in very small quantities.)

My take on Shindo is this. The passion and soul that is poured into each Shindo unit is equivalent to anything else that would be considered worthy of paying a premium for and even achieve collector status, outside the audio realm like art and automobiles if you will. That Shindo is special is something that no Shindo owner can be convinced otherwise. Having experienced a synergistic Shindo setup in their own systems, I doubt many owners will ever walk away from Shindo and I can certainly see why there is Shindo hoarding (I prefer the term "collecting") going on, Shindo is art.

Perhaps a mix and match of audio gear with Snindo thrown in may make someone say, MEH, whatever... But to do Shindo justice is to hear it in a well setup system that allows all of it's potential to come through and capture one's attention, respect and admiration.

Therefore Jeff, I would suggest instead of you trying a Shindo preamp with a mix and match approach, as good or lukewarm the results may be, try to audition a full Shindo system with appropriate speakers. I myself am only beginning to tap into the potential by acquiring 96dB Tannoy speakers although the 93dB Tannoy I have now sound magical with my system. Someday I will have to experience the 100dB, 16 ohm Shindo Latour Field Coil speakers but I am not in a rush, for me, the journey is as much fun as the destination. Besides, I know once I hear Shindo speakers, I will have to open up my wallet right there and then and it will be a very expensive audition.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 10Beers

Now THAT'S what I call putting your money where your mouth is. It's refreshing to see a journalist with such testicular fortitude.
Count me as a fan.

And perhaps if Jeff's attitude towards Shindo was a bit different in previous posts where he tried to pick a bone with Shindo for an unknown reason since he obviously doesn't have any experience with the gear, such as genuine curiosity and respect (at least until proven otherwise by direct experience), I would be a fan too. As it stands right now, I sense Jeff's negativity in every Shindo related post and have to question his motives. Testicular Fortitude? Give me a break!

[10Beers]

Jeff's post #45 reads neutral to me. Actually, the fact that he offered to pay and host to audition speaks volumes. If I had one, Id probably be on my way this weekend.
It's easy to be negative and cynical. Have a nice day.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 10Beers

Jeff's post #45 reads neutral to me. Actually, the fact that he offered to pay and host to audition speaks volumes. If I had one, Id probably be on my way this weekend.
It's easy to be negative and cynical. Have a nice day.

You've missed a few along the way. Jeff's tone has changed from demeaning to one of curiosity, the motives of which I think I understand pretty clearly. Lets just leave it at that. Have a nice day as well.