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  #41  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:22 AM
keef keef is offline
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
For what it's worth, and it's just an opinion or two... I owned a nice Mac stack at one point, driving Wilson Sashas, and switched to an ARC stack. I've never looked back. I feel ARC is a step above. One of my good friends here on AA did the same, and feels the same.

I don't have any CJ experience.

Ymmv, of course, and I absolutely love the Mac asthetic and build quality. I just happen to favor the ARC sound.

I have tried to "mix and match" with terrible results. I would not recommend that. If you like Mac, go all Mac. If you like audio research, please pair likewise.

Just an opinion.
I have always paired my Mac 501’s with other preamps. I have never owned a Mac pre and based on sonics - from what I have read, not sure I would want to.

My system has never sounded more open, clear, and transparant than now, 501’s matched with my excellent Conrad Johnson ET5.

So in my opinion it is not necessary to own all one brand, even Mac.
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:16 AM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
Unlike Mac, I see quite a few posters on various sites pairing ARC preamps with other manufacturers' amps.
I had my ref5se, then ref6, paired with the esoteric a02 with good results. It was actually a sweet sound. Still, I preferred the ARC GS150 with my ref6.

I'm not saying it can't work, but it's a much "safer" bet to stick with the brand of your choice, knowing that they were developed alongside each other.
  #43  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:48 PM
keef keef is offline
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In most cases Marc you are right, for me I have mostly had Thiel speakers which require a muscular SS amp and have always loved tube preamps.
__________________
Main System
Basis 2200 Signature/Vector 4/Transfiguration Proteus
Ortofon Cadenza Black
Allnic H3000/CJ ET5/Mcintosh 501's
Thiel CS3.6
Thiel CS6
MIT EVO 2 IC
Straightwire Maestro II SC
Shunyata Denali SV2
Shunyata Sigma XC
Wywires Juice PC’s
Kubala Sosna PC’s
Dedicated 20 amp lines
Porter Ports
Arcici Ref Suspense Stand
Rives acoustically designed room

Shore House
Basis 1400 Signature/Hadcock 228/Ortofon Jubilee
ARC PH 5/Meridian 200/Meridian 263 DAC
CJ Premier 14/Classe CA200/Thiel 3.6
Wywires Silver IC/Stereolab Diablo SC/MIT Z cord II
  #44  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:56 PM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Originally Posted by keef View Post
In most cases Marc you are right, for me I have mostly had Thiel speakers which require a muscular SS amp and have always loved tube preamps.
Cool. ARC used to make solid state amps. I'd love to hear what they sound like compared to their latest tube designs.
  #45  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:06 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
For what it's worth, and it's just an opinion or two... I owned a nice Mac stack at one point, driving Wilson Sashas, and switched to an ARC stack. I've never looked back. I feel ARC is a step above. One of my good friends here on AA did the same, and feels the same.

I don't have any CJ experience.

Ymmv, of course, and I absolutely love the Mac asthetic and build quality. I just happen to favor the ARC sound.

I have tried to "mix and match" with terrible results. I would not recommend that. If you like Mac, go all Mac. If you like audio research, please pair likewise.

Just an opinion.
Marc,

I have appreciated many of your comments over the years. You have voiced your opinion about AR being a "step above" Mac many times and in many different ways.

The point I am making and will continue to make is that for some reason, AR aficionados voice this opinion on threads they initiate over and over. It is both fascinating and tiresome at the same time.

You have no experience with CJ and it is rare to see a CJ aficionado begin threads like the one I am on which really amounts to an "AR is a step above Mac" thread, always with the disclaimer that Ymmv, whatever that means. I think most recognize that posts are one's opinion.

I'm simply using CJ as an example. CJ is a more natural competitor to AR than is Mac and yet you have no experience with CJ. There are several other companies that make very expensive tube equipment exclusively that are natural competitors to AR. Why don't we hear from them and their experience with AR? Why don't we hear from CJ aficionados and their experience with AR?

There are many other expensive SS amps other than Dags. If I were going to go that route (away from Mac and away from Mac SS) I would probably go with Constellation, not Dag. Mr. A'gostinao is well into his 80's. I would not be going with a Dag.

AR aficionados and Dag aficionados have this need to compare their brands to Mac and give their testimonies.

This is actually a great compliment to Mac because Mac becomes the benchmark, the measuring stick, if you will.
  #46  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:32 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgr4blu View Post
Hi Charles:
You must be mistaking me for any number of other posters who predominate more on Audiogon than here. I do not mean to denigrate McIntosh. McIntosh is a well made and gorgeous product. I owned only Mac tubed gear for the first 10 years or so of my high end audio journey. To my ears, ARC is a more transparent and musical product. I cited specific examples of how I drew my conclusion and noted that others may hve a different opinion.
Unlike posters who invade unrelated threads to tout their gear, denigrate the OP's gear or, worse yet, sell their gear, the purpose of my response was to answer the question posed by the OP. Part of that question was a request from other members of this forum to comment on the differences between the C1100 to the Ref 6.
I had direct experience with comparing my long term C1000 with a mid level ARC preamp of a generation ago and thought the differences were as stated above and were responsive to the Op's inquiry.
I have listened to CJ gear as well and agree that CJ has certain advantages over ARC. But it all comes down to personal taste.
As for my Dag comment, I simply added that because you mentioned Dan D'Agostino as a pioneer/genius and I agree with that conclusion. I make that statement because Dan and his wife Petra were kind enough to lend me a pair of Momentum monoblocks to place in my system for a time. If I were ever to switch back to solid state, I would buy the Momentums.
As for your comparisons with the quality or popularity of Mac v ARC, I disagree with a number of your statements including, most definitely, the cost of manufacture. But I did not post here to debate with you, only to answer the OP's question.
And the person who began the thread was an AR aficionado begun for the express purpose of comparing Mac to AR and ML, but most especially AR.

It does cost AR more to manufacture their product but the build quality of a Mac is on par with AR. What I meant was build and parts quality.

I believe that with Mac you get a better product than AR at 40% less cost, not because Mac sounds better. Mac sounds different. I have never said Mac sounds "better" because it is meaningless.

Mac specs are much better than AR because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac tube does not use fans because it does not need fans. All AR tube uses fans. This is because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac is more reliable and has better trade in value than AR.

If I were to switch away from Mac SS it would not be to a Momentum or any other Dag.
  #47  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:59 PM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Marc,

I have appreciated many of your comments over the years. You have voiced your opinion about AR being a "step above" Mac many times and in many different ways.

The point I am making and will continue to make is that for some reason, AR aficionados voice this opinion on threads they initiate over and over. It is both fascinating and tiresome at the same time.

You have no experience with CJ and it is rare to see a CJ aficionado begin threads like the one I am on which really amounts to an "AR is a step above Mac" thread, always with the disclaimer that Ymmv, whatever that means. I think most recognize that posts are one's opinion.

I'm simply using CJ as an example. CJ is a more natural competitor to AR than is Mac and yet you have no experience with CJ. There are several other companies that make very expensive tube equipment exclusively that are natural competitors to AR. Why don't we hear from them and their experience with AR? Why don't we hear from CJ aficionados and their experience with AR?

There are many other expensive SS amps other than Dags. If I were going to go that route (away from Mac and away from Mac SS) I would probably go with Constellation, not Dag. Mr. A'gostinao is well into his 80's. I would not be going with a Dag.

AR aficionados and Dag aficionados have this need to compare their brands to Mac and give their testimonies.

This is actually a great compliment to Mac because Mac becomes the benchmark, the measuring stick, if you will.

What does Dan's age have to do with anything? He's at the top of his game, I think.

I'm also a fan of Constellation, by the way.

I don't know why we don't hear from CJ people on that comparison, but I clearly stated it was JUST my opinion about ARC. I was trying to say that I'm not denigrating Mac, I just felt like ARC was an improvement in my system.

In fact, every time i've heard ARC+Wilson it's been glorious. Great pairing!

Another favorite pairing of mine is VTL+Wilson. Equally glorious, but a bit more expensive for those Siegfrieds!
  #48  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:03 PM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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How is the OP an AR aficionado? I don’t think he has owned any ARC pre or amp yet he has owned Mac amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
And the person who began the thread was an AR aficionado begun for the express purpose of comparing Mac to AR and ML, but most especially AR.

It does cost AR more to manufacture their product but the build quality of a Mac is on par with AR. What I meant was build and parts quality.

I believe that with Mac you get a better product than AR at 40% less cost, not because Mac sounds better. Mac sounds different. I have never said Mac sounds "better" because it is meaningless.

Mac specs are much better than AR because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac tube does not use fans because it does not need fans. All AR tube uses fans. This is because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac is more reliable and has better trade in value than AR.

If I were to switch away from Mac SS it would not be to a Momentum or any other Dag.
  #49  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:09 PM
gadawg gadawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
And the person who began the thread was an AR aficionado begun for the express purpose of comparing Mac to AR and ML, but most especially AR.

It does cost AR more to manufacture their product but the build quality of a Mac is on par with AR. What I meant was build and parts quality.

I believe that with Mac you get a better product than AR at 40% less cost, not because Mac sounds better. Mac sounds different. I have never said Mac sounds "better" because it is meaningless.

Mac specs are much better than AR because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac tube does not use fans because it does not need fans. All AR tube uses fans. This is because of their unity coupled circuit.

Mac is more reliable and has better trade in value than AR.

If I were to switch away from Mac SS it would not be to a Momentum or any other Dag.
Charles ... since I'm the person who began this thread let me correct you here. I began the thread to simply share my experience comparing three top quality preamps and that was it. Certainly not to "especially" showcase the Ref 6 as you put it. At the time I purchased the Sasha's I kept the Mark Levinson pre that I had even though I thought the Ref6 sounded better. I ended up then moving to a Mark Levinson No52 Ref as I liked that better than the AR and most recently have upgraded to the BAT Rex II preamp which for me is in a different league than any of the preamps mentioned earlier.... and I did say "for me" so I'm not saying its built any better just that I like the sound more. And Joey is correct ... I've never owned an AR preamp or amp even though I've considered it many times and might again if they make something I like better than what I have so I don't think I qualify as an AR fanboy! Take care buddy and enjoy your speakers!

George

Last edited by gadawg; 02-17-2020 at 02:11 PM.
  #50  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:45 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by joey_v View Post
How is the OP an AR aficionado? I don’t think he has owned any ARC pre or amp yet he has owned Mac amps.
I didn't know OP referred to a person.
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