C50 DAC opinions

[vedder77]

Originally Posted by Pider

More folks seem to be giving a thumbs up for the D100. Vedder77, what are you playing the D100 through? Straight to an amp? Through a pre? I don't want to take this off topic, sicne this is about the C50 DAC and its comparison to others, but am curious why some found the D100 not so good, and others are liking it.

Hi Pider,

Im playing the D100 through a Pre (C2300), connectedit to a MacBook Air/Audirvana using the USB connection.
I compared it to a Benchmark DAC1 and liked more the D100 by a wide margin. The DAC1 sounded "thinner" and less forgiving (kinda digital sound), but maybe more detailed. I think that at the end its a matter of tastes.

[tutomac]

I agree. I wrote my impressions in a different thread "D100 vs. Benchmark DAC 2".

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Mark Manner

I have a C50 in my system, and play largely digital sources via a NAS. From time to time I consider obtaining a separate DAC to use in place of the DAC internal to the C50. If anyone has experience in comparing the C50 DAC to other outboard DACs, I would appreciate hearing from them.

Mark.......Your post is a good example of why I am not a proponent of preamplifiers with built in DAC's. It doesn't take long with the speed of digital technology before the internal DAC becomes something you paid for that you no longer want to use. The sad part is you can't even sell the DAC to help fund its replacement. In addition, when it comes time to sell a preamp/DAC combo with an aging DAC it has no real value that a used buyer is willing to pay a premium for. Analog preamplifiers and outboard DAC's are the only way to go in my opinion.

[Ritmo]

+1 Dan

[Mark Manner]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Mark.......Your post is a good example of why I am not a proponent of preamplifiers with built in DAC's. It doesn't take long with the speed of digital technology before the internal DAC becomes something you paid for that you no longer want to use. The sad part is you can't even sell the DAC to help fund its replacement. In addition, when it comes time to sell a preamp/DAC combo with an aging DAC it has no real value that a used buyer is willing to pay a premium for. Analog preamplifiers and outboard DAC's are the only way to go in my opinion.

That is true, although the dac in the C50 is very good, just as you say not upgradeable separately. I have a lot of digital source pathways, and I am finding it ok to use the C50 digital inputs for some material, and reserve a separate DAC for the 'best' material. Having said that, once I pick an external dac to stick with, I probably will only listen to it!
Mark

[Stahle]

I love the idea of a built in DAC only because I like the simplicity of it (one less component to deal with); however, not being able to upgrade is a real bummer. Why can't the built in DAC be something like a TM 1 tuner module that could be purchased as an option and then replaced as DAC technology improves. McIntosh could then sell their preamps and integrated amps without the DAC for those that don't want it. If they change their mind, they could simply add the optional DAC module. Then as technology improves, a new DAC module could be offered. There are other companies that do this already.

[Pider]

Originally Posted by Stahle

I love the idea of a built in DAC only because I like the simplicity of it (one less component to deal with); however, not being able to upgrade is a real bummer. Why can't the built in DAC be something like a TM 1 tuner module that could be purchased as an option and then replaced as DAC technology improves. McIntosh could then sell their preamps and integrated amps without the DAC for those that don't want it. If they change their mind, they could simply add the optional DAC module. Then as technology improves, a new DAC module could be offered. There are other companies that do this already.

Absolutely!

[Maks]

Originally Posted by Stahle

I love the idea of a built in DAC only because I like the simplicity of it (one less component to deal with); however, not being able to upgrade is a real bummer. Why can't the built in DAC be something like a TM 1 tuner module that could be purchased as an option and then replaced as DAC technology improves. McIntosh could then sell their preamps and integrated amps without the DAC for those that don't want it. If they change their mind, they could simply add the optional DAC module. Then as technology improves, a new DAC module could be offered. There are other companies that do this already.

This topic has been beat to death around here, but I agree that this would be a great solution for DAC upgradeability. I certainly see the appeal of built-in DACs; I think for the average consumer, even one who purchases McIntosh products, the simplicity of a built-in DAC far outweighs any perceived disadvantages in the future.

[Mark Manner]

Originally Posted by Mark Manner

I have just gotten a Benchmark DAC2 to compare to the C50 (and will have an Auralic Vega next week to compare too). So far, I believe that the Benchmark DAC2 sounds very slightly 'better'. I am doing sighted a/b testing, as volume matched as I can. On really good source material, the Benchmark DAC2 sounds to me a little easier/pleasant to listen to, in that female voices seem a bit less edgy, and perhaps there is a bit more perception of depth in the soundstage. I am going to try some blind a/b testing too this weekend.

Update: I have had the Benchmark DAC2 for 5 days now, powered up the entire time, but maybe only 50 hours of actual music through it. Today I volume matched my McIntosh C50 internal dac and the Benchmark DAC2 using a sound meter (using pink noise), and synched up both sources with JRiver, and had my spouse switch inputs for me (and I listened on my own prior to that). They both sounded very good, and frankly, I don't think I could hear a difference. This was using speakers, not headphones. I do not claim to be a gifted listener, but I am an enthusiastic one. The content was Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Daft Punk, Beethoven 9th, Christie Winn, Rebecca Pigeon, all source material 24/88, 24/96, 24/176 or 24/192. Benchmark was attached via USB, using its supplied ASIO driver, balanced xlr outputs to McIntosh C50 xlr inputs; the C50 Dac was fed via S/PDIF from a Sonore Rendu. All music served up from a Synology NAS via JRiver. Maybe other things in my supply chain are masking any differences, but at least with my equipment, if there is a difference, it is fairly subtle. This doesn't mean the Benchmark DAC2 isn't good, but does mean the C50 dac isn't bad, at least not when fed via the Rendu/Synology route. I get an Auralic Vega in a couple of days, and will give it a go.

[Parabellum]

Originally Posted by Mark Manner

Update: I have had the Benchmark DAC2 for 5 days now, powered up the entire time, but maybe only 50 hours of actual music through it. Today I volume matched my McIntosh C50 internal dac and the Benchmark DAC2 using a sound meter (using pink noise), and synched up both sources with JRiver, and had my spouse switch inputs for me (and I listened on my own prior to that). They both sounded very good, and frankly, I don't think I could hear a difference. This was using speakers, not headphones. I do not claim to be a gifted listener, but I am an enthusiastic one. The content was Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Daft Punk, Beethoven 9th, Christie Winn, Rebecca Pigeon, all source material 24/88, 24/96, 24/176 or 24/192. Benchmark was attached via USB, using its supplied ASIO driver, balanced xlr outputs to McIntosh C50 xlr inputs; the C50 Dac was fed via S/PDIF from a Sonore Rendu. All music served up from a Synology NAS via JRiver. Maybe other things in my supply chain are masking any differences, but at least with my equipment, if there is a difference, it is fairly subtle. This doesn't mean the Benchmark DAC2 isn't good, but does mean the C50 dac isn't bad, at least not when fed via the Rendu/Synology route. I get an Auralic Vega in a couple of days, and will give it a go.

Thanks Mark for the report. It is very useful for those like me considering the C50 as next pre-amp.