Question for the current (and former) Ref 6 owners

[robd2]

Great info guys, thank you! Yes you are correct, the c47 and 152 work very well together. A little more background for you. You guessed it, the upgrade bug has set in. I was looking to take my system to the next level, within reason... So yes I have also been looking at amps. In addition to the bigger Macs I was also looking at the pass amps.

I spent a little time with the Mac c2600 preamp, which I liked A LOT but had some extra trade in credit so decided to take the Mac c1100 for a demo at home. It was a brand new unit so I've been breaking it in. I actually do not like what I'm hearing from the c1100. It's very quiet and detailed bit seems to be missing that fleshy tone the c2600 and other tube preamps have. Maybe also a synergy thing with the mc152? Either way I'm having a lot of fun! Thus why I've been looking into preamps in the range of the c1100. I've also been closely looking at the xp30 preamp from pass.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by robd2

Great info guys, thank you! Yes you are correct, the c47 and 152 work very well together. A little more background for you. You guessed it, the upgrade bug has set in. I was looking to take my system to the next level, within reason... So yes I have also been looking at amps. In addition to the bigger Macs I was also looking at the pass amps.

I spent a little time with the Mac c2600 preamp, which I liked A LOT but had some extra trade in credit so decided to take the Mac c1100 for a demo at home. It was a brand new unit so I've been breaking it in. I actually do not like what I'm hearing from the c1100. It's very quiet and detailed bit seems to be missing that fleshy tone the c2600 and other tube preamps have. Maybe also a synergy thing with the mc152? Either way I'm having a lot of fun! Thus why I've been looking into preamps in the range of the c1100. I've also been closely looking at the xp30 preamp from pass.

Of course it is up to you, your ears and preference but once again I would suggest staying Mac over Mac for the sonic smack. Pass Labs is a different flavor for sure, not that I am saying it is bad in any way, just different.

One thing I'll add is the C47 sounded fuller and a bit warmer than the tubed preamp such as the C2200 (with stock tubes at least) of that era. Again, not saying one is better than the other but there was enough of a difference that one can like one more than the other.

[jpgr4blu]

The combo of Mac and ARC provide the worst of both brands. When I had an all Mac system and wanted a little more transparency, I sold my C1000 and purchased a Ref 5. The sound became a little cleaner and more well defined but was not the level of improvement I expected----so I purchased an ARC amp to see if I could go more in the clean and well defined realm. The ARC combo provided more transparency and better inner detail as well as greater soundstage and dimensionality. I have never looked back.

[tima]

I'm familiar with Audio Research REF gear and have little acquaintance with Macintosh equipment. Apart from how they sound together (obviously of prime importance) are there reasons why they don't go well together?

I once ran across an incompatibility using a Lamm amp with an Atma-Sphere preamp - it was due to differences in how each implemented balanced circuit input/output. But I never experienced the inability of an amp to work well with an ARC linestage.

Of course one expects Macintosh components to work with other Macintosh components. Is there something in their design or implementation that lends them not to work well with different brands?

[For The Love of Music]

Originally Posted by tima

I'm familiar with Audio Research REF gear and have little acquaintance with Macintosh equipment. Apart from how they sound together (obviously of prime importance) are there reasons why they don't go well together?



I once ran across an incompatibility using a Lamm amp with an Atma-Sphere preamp - it was due to differences in how each implemented balanced circuit input/output. But I never experienced the inability of an amp to work well with an ARC linestage.



Of course one expects Macintosh components to work with other Macintosh components. Is there something in their design or implementation that lends them not to work well with different brands?

Yes, FWIW, I never veered from the same manufacturer in a preamp, amp relation.

One of those things I probably will never try, as I view it from a narrow perspective. I liken it by not assembling a Ferrari with Alpha parts. The source components can be OEM or many of the badass pieces of equipment out in the market.

Good advice in this thread by all!

[PHC1]

While it is a natural curiosity to mix and match gear as we all like to do, every once in a while you come across combo's that just don't gel well together per say. Some of it may very well be technical, other explanation is more subjective taste.


As for our example of Reference 6 and C47 and say MC501 monoblocks. The MC501's voltage gain is not high. It needs over 2 volts to reach maximum output. The Reference 6 starts to clip at 2.7V balanced. Ok, perhaps not terrible but it is too close imho.

The C-47 has 100/200 ohms SE and balanced output impedance. The Reference 6 output impedance in balanced reaches 1378 ohms at 20khz. That's quite a difference. Reference 6 should be paired with an amp with at least 10k ohm input impedance (which the MC501 for example has but other amps may not be)

Let the manufacturers figure out how to pair their preamps and amps properly which is what they do. We can experiment of course but don't be surprised when the result is less than optimal.

[robd2]

Originally Posted by PHC1

While it is a natural curiosity to mix and match gear as we all like to do, every once in a while you come across combo's that just don't gel well together per say. Some of it may very well be technical, other explanation is more subjective taste.


As for our example of Reference 6 and C47 and say MC501 monoblocks. The MC501's voltage gain is not high. It needs over 2 volts to reach maximum output. The Reference 6 starts to clip at 2.7V balanced. Ok, perhaps not terrible but it is too close imho.

The C-47 has 100/200 ohms SE and balanced output impedance. The Reference 6 output impedance in balanced reaches 1378 ohms at 20khz. That's quite a difference. Reference 6 should be paired with an amp with at least 100k ohm input impedance (which the MC501 for example has but other amps may not be)

Let the manufacturers figure out how to pair their preamps and amps properly which is what they do. We can experiment of course but don't be surprised when the result is less than optimal.

These are great details. Can I have a similar analysis on the VAC preamp? my other choice.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by robd2

These are great details. Can I have a similar analysis on the VAC preamp? my other choice.

Never owned or auditioned VAC at home for any time. Other than hearing VAC at a few places, not much experience.

[vintage_tube]

Originally Posted by robd2

These are great details. Can I have a similar analysis on the VAC preamp? my other choice.

Went from a McIntosh C500T/C combo to a VAC Signature MK IIa w/phono feeding my MC2301's -- in a nut shell and I've mentioned it on AA in several different threads -- the worse mistake I have made in a long time.

Loss of synergy is all I can say -- for the major underlying problem in which I just hated my system (to be a bit over dramatic). My fault; I got upgradeitis and bought it unheard.

McIntosh introduced the C1100 -- sold the VAC and have been enjoying my music all over again -- especially over the 4 or so years I "lost" when I owned the VAC.

I like VAC -- don't get me wrong. I'd love to be a proud owner of a 450iQ system but I didn't invest in bitcoins a numbers of years ago. It just didn't work out to my expectations & satisfaction.

Like when I had a ARC Ref 3 in the house -- the C500T/C beat it (there's a thread on AA about that too). My buddy with the Ref 3 didn't like the outcome (we then moved to his house and same results practically).

What I learned is this -- with McIntosh -- no matter what the latest and greatest preamp is -- stick with McIntosh. Save yourself aggravation and money.

Best Sir,

Bob

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by vintage_tube

What I learned is this -- with McIntosh -- no matter what the latest and greatest preamp is -- stick with McIntosh. Save yourself aggravation and money.

Best Sir,

Bob

Yes! I even came up with the slogan "Mac on Mac for that sonic smack" and cracked myself up today...