Which Shunyata power cord should I use where?

[AVphile]

My Denali 2000/T, which arrived today along with a Venom HC, is replacing my Hydra-2. In addition, a second new Venom HC is replacing an older Shunyata power cord that I was using with my center channel amplifier. As a consequence, I now have two earlier generation Shunyata power cords available to use with my Hydra-2.

They are a Copperhead and a Sidewinder Gold. The Hydra-2 will be used, in conjunction with a Venom Defender, as the power conditioner for my two powered Revel Ultima Sub-30 subwoofers; each Sub-30 has an internal Class A/B plate amplifier spec'd at 1000 watts RMS.

To complicate matters a bit more, close by is my Krell Class A/B power amplifier, spec'd at 250 watts RMS per channel, that I am using to drive my left and right side Revel Ultima Embrace speakers. The power cord not used with the Hydra-2 will be use with theat Krell amplifier.

The obvious answer, I know, is to try each power cord one way and then swap them. Unfortunately, because of the manner in which that part of my system has been organized, I will have to be a contortionist to connect these power cords even once. My preference is to listen to the advice of others far more knowledgeable about Shunyata products than am I, make my determination based on that advice, connect the two power cords and be done with it.

I also have one related question. Should I use my now available Venom Defender in conjunction with my Hydra-2 or my Krell power amplifier?

Any thoughts, fellow Audio Aficionados?

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by AVphile

The obvious answer, I know, is to try each power cord one way and then swap them. Unfortunately, because of the manner in which that part of my system has been organized, I will have to be a contortionist to connect these power cords even once. My preference is to listen to the advice of others far more knowledgeable about Shunyata products than am I, make my determination based on that advice, connect the two power cords and be done with it.

The time I’ve spent to let my ears decide has always been worth the effort... even when being a contortionist was required.

If it were me, I’d probably focus on the amp given how much more it has to contribute. The better power cord would remain with it.

[crwilli]

I haven’t delved into any Shunyata PCs yet but have to say the title of this thread caught my eye. I do have Shunyata USB and Clock cables and have started to read more about their PCs etc.

I am totally bewildered about what would go where. I appreciate that Shunyata seems very responsive to questions of ‘what to use where and why’ which it seems, is almost a requirement. The product line is confusing to me.

Having said that, I would agree with kennyb123, to put your ‘best’ on your amp.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by AVphile

My Denali 2000/T, which arrived today along with a Venom HC, is replacing my Hydra-2. In addition, a second new Venom HC is replacing an older Shunyata power cord that I was using with my center channel amplifier. As a consequence, I now have two earlier generation Shunyata power cords available to use with my Hydra-2.

They are a Copperhead and a Sidewinder Gold. The Hydra-2 will be used, in conjunction with a Venom Defender, as the power conditioner for my two powered Revel Ultima Sub-30 subwoofers; each Sub-30 has an internal Class A/B plate amplifier spec'd at 1000 watts RMS.

To complicate matters a bit more, close by is my Krell Class A/B power amplifier, spec'd at 250 watts RMS per channel, that I am using to drive my left and right side Revel Ultima Embrace speakers. The power cord not used with the Hydra-2 will be use with theat Krell amplifier.

The obvious answer, I know, is to try each power cord one way and then swap them. Unfortunately, because of the manner in which that part of my system has been organized, I will have to be a contortionist to connect these power cords even once. My preference is to listen to the advice of others far more knowledgeable about Shunyata products than am I, make my determination based on that advice, connect the two power cords and be done with it.

I also have one related question. Should I use my now available Venom Defender in conjunction with my Hydra-2 or my Krell power amplifier?

Any thoughts, fellow Audio Aficionados?

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding your configuration. I can't figure out what distributor is going where and will be powered by what.

My understanding is your Venom HCs will be used to power the Denali 2000/T and Hydra-2. Is that correct? If so, those are the best power cords you have on hand for those.

What components will be powered by the Denali 2000/T and what will be powered by the Hydra-2? What powr cord will connect these components to their respective power distributors?

What will your Krell be plugged into? A power distributor or an AC receptacle on the wall?

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by crwilli

I haven’t delved into any Shunyata PCs yet but have to say the title of this thread caught my eye. I do have Shunyata USB and Clock cables and have started to read more about their PCs etc.

I am totally bewildered about what would go where. I appreciate that Shunyata seems very responsive to questions of ‘what to use where and why’ which it seems, is almost a requirement. The product line is confusing to me.

Having said that, I would agree with kennyb123, to put your ‘best’ on your amp.

Where you go with Shunyata power cords and why depends on your specification configuration and requirements.

The Shunyata power cord line historically had been a fairly complex product nomenclature, with models named after various snakes, but in recent years, Grant and Caelin have done a very good job of simplifying and clarifying the power cord product portfolio and nomenclature.

There are four broad lines of power cords with "descending" levels functionality and performance as you move down the product lines.

Starting at the very top and then descending:

1. Sigma
2. Alpha
3. Delta
4. Venom

Venom is the entry-level and Sigma is the top of the line. Each line provides more performance as you move up from Venom.

There are two broad classes of cords within each line:

1. NR for "built-in" noise-reduction
2. EF for "extra flexibility"

So, for example, within the Delta range, there is an NR power cord and an EF power cord.

NR power cords provide built-in, inline Noise Reduction functionality.

EF power cords provide extra-flexibility where routing or placement behind racks or confined spaces is a problem. They do not provide the noise suppression functionality that the NR power cords provide. The EF power cords are thus best used in conjunction with a Shunyata power distributor that provides NR functionality, e.g. a Denali, Triton V3, or the new Performance line (Delta, Alpha and Sigma line).

First and foremost a power cord needs to provide DTCD: Dynamic Current Transient Delivery: the ability to swing large amounts of current very quickly to allow the specific component it is driving the current it needs in the time frame it needs it to follow the dynamic swings of the musical content. This is the #1 top requirement for a power cord and is higher in priority than other requirements e.g. noise-reduction or flexibility, resistance to RFI/EMI, etc. This is also why Shunyata provides a specification for the amount of current that can be delivered per unit time. The applications where DTCD and high-current delivery are the most critical are power distributors and power amps, though other components can benefit from them, including DACs and preamps.

NR power cords are primarily intended for where the use of a noise-reduction power distributor is not possible, either due to placement, application or budget-constraints, or for use with older Shunyata power distributors that don't have much much in the way of built-in noise reduction e.g. the older Hydra 4, Hydra 6 or the Venom PS8 (and for some that have some level of NR, e.g. Hydra 8, V-Ray and Triton V1). So, for example, if you only have the possibility or budget for powering a component from a wall AC receptacle, you can still obtain noise reduction functionality by using a Shunyata NR power cord to power your component directly from the wall receptacle. The NR power cords not only provide noise suppression from noise coming in to the component, they also provide noise suppression from the component's internal power supply from coming back out of the component to contaminate other components in the amplification chain. In this respect, they provide some level of "component-to-component isolation".

Of course, you can use an NR power cord with a Denali or the new Performance line power distributors, the NR will be additive to what level of NR these distributors also provide.

The EF power cords are designed to be extra-flexible for routing and placement behind audio racks and/or spaces where a heavier gauge or stiffer power cords would be challenging. They provide excellent DTCD as well as protection from RFI/EMI.

The Venom line is a little bit more differentiated than Delta, Alpha or Sigma in that there are some more variants within the Venom power cord line. This is to bring Shunyata power cord products and functionality to as broad a range of customers, their budgets and applications as possible (more on this below). They are again split into NR and non-NR versions.

Venom-NR series:
Venom NR-V10
Venom NR-V12
Venom V-14 Digital

The Venom NR-V10 and V-12 are intended for providing noise-reduction for the principal amplification components in a system. For example, a NR V-10 can power virtually any power distributors or amplifiers. For example, Jim Treanor is uisng an NR-V10 for powering his original Hydra power distributor.

V-12 is well suited for use with pre-amps, DACs, phono stages. For example, I'm presently using an NR-V10 for powering my power amp and a V-12 for power my DAC. Eventually, I'll probably be using an NR-V12 for my phono stage and preamp as well.

Venom V-14 Digital was developed out of technology from Shunyata's sister company, Clear Image Scientific, is primarily intended for use with "digital front-end" steaming components e.g. music servers, NAS', optical drives, cable modems, routers, switches, and the power supplies for these as well as the power supplies for network bridges and fiber media convertors, etc. They also have the capability of reducing "parasitic noise" which is common and insidious with these types of digital devices. I'm using one of these for powering my Mac Mini Roon Core, the Keces P3 that powers my SOtM Network Bridge, and my Sonore OpticalModule fiber media convertor. V-14 digital also comes in various plug configurations, e.g. C13, C7, C5, etc.

Non-NR Venom PCs
Venom HC Version 2: the newest version of the high DTCD-capable Venom
Venom EF: An extra-flexible Venom power cord
Venom 14: a 14-gauge Venom power cord for use with lower-current devices e.g. disc players, tuners, headphone amps, etc., and video applications e.g. set-top boxes, etc. Venom 14 is available in a number of plug configurations e.g. C13, C7, C7P, and C5.

One last point: its useful to think of your power distribution system as a "swimming pool". You want the pool to be filled with fresh, clean, clear water for all your components. As such, you absolutely don't want any power cords connecting to the pool to be throwing "mud" into the water. This is what happens when you connect a single black generic power cord to a power distribution system. The water becomes muddy, and the muddy water is shared by "everyone". So, its very important to use high-quality, "clean", quiet power cords that are not going to "muddy the waters" in your power distributiion chain to then contaminate your entire amplification chain. To use anything less defeats the maximal functionality provided by your nice power distributor.

So, let's say you have a budget of $4000 for an entire power distribution system including distributor & power cords. It would be much better to spend $2000 on a Shunyata Delta D6, and then ~$1800 for four Shunyata $450 NR-V10s for all your components than $2000 for a higher-specification power distributor, and $2000 for a single, expensive power cord and black generic power cords for everything else. The key is to get all the generic black power cords completely out of the system.

Hope this helps to clarify the Shunyata power cord line and respective applications. I'll leave it to Grant and Caelin to chime in if I've been inaccurate or missed anything of note.

[AVphile]

Good questions! Let me attempt to answer them as best I can. Here are the facts:

1. A Venom HC will be used to power the Denali 2000/T.
2. A Krell FPB-200c stereo amplifier and a Krell FPB-250mc mono amplifier will be connected to the Denali 2000/T. The 200c has its own [fixed] power cord; the 250mc will use another Venom HC. These two amplifiers drive my left/center/right speakers.
3. My Hydra-2 will be used in conjunction with the amplifiers driving my two subwoofers.
4. My Krell KAV-250 stereo amplifier will plug directly into a wall socket under a Venom Defender. This amplifier is used to drive the two side speakers of my 7.4 audio system.
5. I have two "available" Shunyata power cords: a Copperhead and a Sidewinder Gold.

I am trending towards using the Copperhead with the Hydra-2 and the Sidewinder Gold with the Krell KAV-250. My reasoning is based on the fact that the subwoofers are always important and the Copperhead is a more advanced power cord, whereas my side speakers perform a mere secondary function when watching movies.

As I said in my initial posting, I am not keen on contorting myself to swap cords in order to determine whether I can detect a difference between them. I far prefer to install them once and then live with that installation. I started this thread to elicit comments from forum participants who have some familiarity with two now obsolete Shunyata power cords and, thus, could offer me any insight as to which configuration is more likely to sound better.

[jimtranr]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

For example, Jim Traynor is uisng an NR-V10 for powering his original Hydra power distributor.

Who he?

Replacing the "ay" with "ea" will eliminate all background noise-induced distortion, increase transparency, and render the presentation wholly accurate.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by jimtranr

Who he?

Replacing the "ay" with "ea" will eliminate all background noise-induced distortion, increase transparency, and render the presentation wholly accurate.

Oops, sorry, Jim. Typo. Fixed and thanks!

[AVphile]

@ Puma Cat

Your explanation of the hierarchy of Shunyata cables is interesting and valuable. Your last point -- about "black generic power cords" -- causes me some concern. My Krell FPB 200c amplifier's 20A power cord is fixed, and Krell emphasizes in the owner's manual that the amplifier should only be operated with that power cord.

Based on what I read in your recent posting, attaching that cord to the Denali 2000/T will denigrate that power conditioner's performance. Since I am stuck with the power cord which came with the Krell amplifier, have you any recommendations?

[2fastdriving]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Where you go with Shunyata power cords and why depends on your specification configuration and requirements.

The Shunyata power cord line historically had been a fairly complex product nomenclature, with models named after various snakes, but in recent years, Grant and Caelin have done a very good job of simplifying and clarifying the power cord product portfolio and nomenclature.

There are four broad lines of power cords with "descending" levels functionality and performance as you move down the product lines.

Starting at the very top and then descending:

1. Sigma
2. Alpha
3. Delta
4. Venom

Venom is the entry-level and Sigma is the top of the line. Each line provides more performance as you move up from Venom.

There are two broad classes of cords within each line:

1. NR for "built-in" noise-reduction
2. EF for "extra flexibility"

So, for example, within the Delta range, there is an NR power cord and an EF power cord.

NR power cords provide built-in, inline Noise Reduction functionality.

EF power cords provide extra-flexibility where routing or placement behind racks or confined spaces is a problem. They do not provide the noise suppression functionality that the NR power cords provide. The EF power cords are thus best used in conjunction with a Shunyata power distributor that provides NR functionality, e.g. a Denali, Triton V3, or the new Performance line (Delta, Alpha and Sigma line).

First and foremost a power cord needs to provide DTCD: Dynamic Current Transient Delivery: the ability to swing large amounts of current very quickly to allow the specific component it is driving the current it needs in the time frame it needs it to follow the dynamic swings of the musical content. This is the #1 top requirement for a power cord and is higher in priority than other requirements e.g. noise-reduction or flexibility, resistance to RFI/EMI, etc. This is also why Shunyata provides a specification for the amount of current that can be delivered per unit time. The applications where DTCD and high-current delivery are the most critical are power distributors and power amps, though other components can benefit from them, including DACs and preamps.

NR power cords are primarily intended for where the use of a noise-reduction power distributor is not possible, either due to placement, application or budget-constraints, or for use with older Shunyata power distributors that don't have much much in the way of built-in noise reduction e.g. the older Hydra 4, Hydra 6 or the Venom PS8 (and for some that have some level of NR, e.g. Hydra 8, V-Ray and Triton V1). So, for example, if you only have the possibility or budget for powering a component from a wall AC receptacle, you can still obtain noise reduction functionality by using a Shunyata NR power cord to power your component directly from the wall receptacle. The NR power cords not only provide noise suppression from noise coming in to the component, they also provide noise suppression from the component's internal power supply from coming back out of the component to contaminate other components in the amplification chain. In this respect, they provide some level of "component-to-component isolation".

Of course, you can use an NR power cord with a Denali or the new Performance line power distributors, the NR will be additive to what level of NR these distributors also provide.

The EF power cords are designed to be extra-flexible for routing and placement behind audio racks and/or spaces where a heavier gauge or stiffer power cords would be challenging. They provide excellent DTCD as well as protection from RFI/EMI.

The Venom line is a little bit more differentiated than Delta, Alpha or Sigma in that there are some more variants within the Venom power cord line. This is to bring Shunyata power cord products and functionality to as broad a range of customers, their budgets and applications as possible (more on this below). They are again split into NR and non-NR versions.

Venom-NR series:
Venom NR-V10
Venom NR-V12
Venom V-14 Digital

The Venom NR-V10 and V-12 are intended for providing noise-reduction for the principal amplification components in a system. For example, a NR V-10 can power virtually any power distributors or amplifiers. For example, Jim Treanor is uisng an NR-V10 for powering his original Hydra power distributor.

V-12 is well suited for use with pre-amps, DACs, phono stages. For example, I'm presently using an NR-V10 for powering my power amp and a V-12 for power my DAC. Eventually, I'll probably be using an NR-V12 for my phono stage and preamp as well.

Venom V-14 Digital was developed out of technology from Shunyata's sister company, Clear Image Scientific, is primarily intended for use with "digital front-end" steaming components e.g. music servers, NAS', optical drives, cable modems, routers, switches, and the power supplies for these as well as the power supplies for network bridges and fiber media convertors, etc. They also have the capability of reducing "parasitic noise" which is common and insidious with these types of digital devices. I'm using one of these for powering my Mac Mini Roon Core, the Keces P3 that powers my SOtM Network Bridge, and my Sonore OpticalModule fiber media convertor. V-14 digital also comes in various plug configurations, e.g. C13, C7, C5, etc.

Non-NR Venom PCs
Venom HC Version 2: the newest version of the high DTCD-capable Venom
Venom EF: An extra-flexible Venom power cord
Venom 14: a 14-gauge Venom power cord for use with lower-current devices e.g. disc players, tuners, headphone amps, etc., and video applications e.g. set-top boxes, etc. Venom 14 is available in a number of plug configurations e.g. C13, C7, C7P, and C5.

One last point: its useful to think of your power distribution system as a "swimming pool". You want the pool to be filled with fresh, clean, clear water for all your components. As such, you absolutely don't want any power cords connecting to the pool to be throwing "mud" into the water. This is what happens when you connect a single black generic power cord to a power distribution system. The water becomes muddy, and the muddy water is shared by "everyone". So, its very important to use high-quality, "clean", quiet power cords that are not going to "muddy the waters" in your power distributiion chain to then contaminate your entire amplification chain. To use anything less defeats the maximal functionality provided by your nice power distributor.

So, let's say you have a budget of $4000 for an entire power distribution system including distributor & power cords. It would be much better to spend $2000 on a Shunyata Delta D6, and then ~$1800 for four Shunyata $450 NR-V10s for all your components than $2000 for a higher-specification power distributor, and $2000 for a single, expensive power cord and black generic power cords for everything else. The key is to get all the generic black power cords completely out of the system.

Hope this helps to clarify the Shunyata power cord line and respective applications. I'll leave it to Grant and Caelin to chime in if I've been inaccurate or missed anything of note.

You should go work for Shunyata...very well explained!

I've always found their lines hard to figure out, but this helps. Is it true that the NR cords are designed to be used WITHOUT a power conditioner? Or at least without a Shunyata power conditioner? And the EF are used WITH a Shunyata power conditioner? I have Alpha HC now.