Telefunken ECC83/12AX7 Smooth Plate Experiences?

[esteban]

I just acquired a pair of Telefunken's ECC83/12AX7 Smooth Plate (NOS, with the "diamond" mark at the bottom) to replace the stock 12AX7's in my Prima Luna DiaLogue One. Second time rolling this type of tube in the amp. My only prior experience was a pair of Gold Lion's ECC83. Did not care for them at all and they were actually microphonic, so I returned them.

First impressions after only 3 or 4 hours with the Telefunkens: an overall sweeter and transparent midrange, yet a colder, more analytically revealing overall presentation that seems to be lacking a little bit of "punch" and vibrancy in the lower registries. Ironically, I am hearing plenty of notes and details in familiar recordings that I had never heard before, specially upper bass notes. But there's a certain "liveliness" and depth that I am now missing.

In other words, it seems I sacrificed a little warmth in favor of more detail and tighter (but less "feel-it-in-the-chest") bass. Still pondering if I have gone backwards, forward, or simply side-ways.

Overall, I think I (again) prefer the stock Prima Luna tubes (they seem to invite me to just listen and listen for hours) yet I understand that the Telefunken's are very much sought after and belong to the crème de la crème of NOS tubes. I realize the sound will be amplifier-dependent, and it would be pointless to generalize (different ears, different tastes and priorities, etc.), but I was just curious if any of you had any experiences with the Telefunken tubes that you'd care to share...

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by esteban

I just acquired a pair of Telefunken's ECC83/12AX7 Smooth Plate (NOS, with the "diamond" mark at the bottom) to replace the stock 12AX7's in my Prima Luna DiaLogue One. Second time rolling this type of tube in the amp. My only prior experience was a pair of Gold Lion's ECC83. Did not care for them at all and they were actually microphonic, so I returned them.

First impressions after only 3 or 4 hours with the Telefunkens: an overall sweeter and transparent midrange, yet a colder, more analytically revealing overall presentation that seems to be lacking a little bit of "punch" and vibrancy in the lower registries. Ironically, I am hearing plenty of notes and details in familiar recordings that I had never heard before, specially upper bass notes. But there's a certain "liveliness" and depth that I am now missing.

In other words, it seems I sacrificed a little warmth in favor of more detail and tighter (but less "feel-it-in-the-chest" bass). Still pondering if I have gone backwards, forward, or simply side-ways.

Overall, I think I (again) prefer the stock Prima Luna tubes (they seem to invite me to just listen and listen for hours) yet I understand that the Telefunken's are very much sought after and belong to the crème de la crème of NOS tubes. I realize the sound will be amplifier-dependent, and it would be pointless to generalize (different ears, different tastes and priorities, etc.), but I was just curious if any of you had any experiences with the Telefunken tubes that you'd care to share...

Did you clean/descale the tube pins before installing the Teles? Old tubes, lot of crud builds up.

[esteban]

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Did you clean/descale the tube pins before installing the Teles? Old tubes, lot of crud builds up.

Actually, I didn't. Can I use something like DeOxiT to clean the pins?

[MyPal]

Telefunken Diamond Bottom ECC803s

Hard to get. I've put myself on a waiting list for NOS if you can get such anymore.

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by esteban

Actually, I didn't. Can I use something like DeOxiT to clean the pins?

Deoxit would do it in part. I like using Flitz or the solid paste Gorham silver polish and a Q-tip, thoroughly cleaning the pins and then cleaning them with Kontak. Makes a mighty difference (as this also does for AC plugs).

[esteban]

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Deoxit would do it in part. I like using Flitz or the solid paste Gorham silver polish and a Q-tip, thoroughly cleaning the pins and then cleaning them with Kontak. Makes a mighty difference (as this also does for AC plugs).

Will try that, thanks, Myles.

Anybody have any experience with this tube? Is the slight lack of bass "punch" something that would be affected by break-in? I'm torn between this markedly more revealing/neutral sound of the Telefunkens and the warmth and overall pleasantness I was getting with the stock Prima Luna tubes...

[Cellindo]

One question esteban,

Were these Telefunken ECC83/12AX7 really testing above new tube specifications? Many NOS tubes sold are finally pretty used tubes. This is the first thing to verify in your case.

It is true that TFKN are not the warmest 12AX7 on market. But they should be kind for details and 3D soundstage.

Mullard CV4004 should sound warmer and retain plenty of the good NOS tube qualities.

Recently, I've been quite impressed by the very old (late 50's) AMPEREX Buggle Boy labelled tubes for 12AX7. If you can find some, don't hesitate!

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by Cellindo

One question esteban,

Were these Telefunken ECC83/12AX7 really testing above new tube specifications? Many NOS tubes sold are finally pretty used tubes. This is the first thing to verify in your case.

It is true that TFKN are not the warmest 12AX7 on market. But they should be kind for details and 3D soundstage.

Mullard CV4004 should sound warmer and retain plenty of the good NOS tube qualities.

Recently, I've been quite impressed by the very old (late 50's) AMPEREX Buggle Boy labelled tubes for 12AX7. If you can find some, don't hesitate!

You bring up a very good point! So little of what is sold as NOS (esp. on Ebay) is really NOS nowadays. Unless it's sealed or from a reputable dealer all bets are off.

[ssmith3046]

I've tried matched pairs of Telefunkens, Mullards ( real ones ), and Bugle Boys in the tone and phono sections in my Fisher 500C but always go back to my 1957 RCA black plates. There's just something about them that works for me.

[Removed]

I'm finding more and more vintage tubes to be less desirable with todays gear.....the designers are voicing around newer tubes and vintage may not always be best sound wise, different but not necessarily better.....the Teles seem to bring lot's of hype these day's and steep prices, more so than in the past plus there are a boat load of duds floating around even from dealers!!. There are many many vintage tubes that don't get the hype like the Teles do that are better IMO.....One is the RCA BP late 50's the above poster mentioned, those are fantastic sounding tubes and don't carry the steep price tag.....