Moving Magnet Cartridge

[turntable]

Originally Posted by gregswaim

Does your tonearm have one those removable headshells? If so, you might want to consider getting a solid tonearm for better tracking. It all adds up to better sound in the end.

Where did you come up with removable headshell's = less solid, less precise tracking and worse sound than fixed tonearm? Is this thru listening or ??

I have 3 tables (including a LP12) with fixed tonearms and removable headshells. They all work great, some better than others depending on the cartridge / tonearms synergy.

[turntable]

Originally Posted by jdandy

I also have and use a Signet TK9eA cartridge. Signet is no longer manufactured, but at the time (1980) the Signet TK9eA was the top of the line, completely hand built cartridge from parent company Audio-Technica. It is a wonderful sounding cartridge, as well, with a boron cantilever, and polished super eliptical diamond stylus. This cartridge has about 200 hours on it. My biggest concern with this cartridge is its age (29 years), and the possible condition of the cantilever suspension. I may be worrying over absolutely nothing because it tracks beautifully at 1.25 grams, and has a slightly better sound than the Shure V15VxMR, a bit more space around voices and instruments, and a wonderfully open top end. I am in the same boat with the Signet TK9eA as the Shure, no available stylus replacements. Needless to say, I exercise extreme care when handling both cartridges.

I found the link provided by turntable to the Agon forum post an interesting read. I tend to believe that cartridge headshells play a greater roll in the sound of a cartridge than is typically attributed to them. I found it intriguing that this individual went into that area, and had such experience with evaluating the same cartridge on many different headshells and arm combinations. It is clear he is commited to the experiments and resulting evaluations. His comments were enlightning.

I am still in the procrastinating mode. There are lots of things to think about, play with, and alternatives to try. Turntables, arms, and cartridges are such physical beasts, requiring lots of care and feeding. Fun stuff.

Dan, sounds like you just want to buy something

I like Greg have been a MC man for some time, however lately I have been open minded and have tried a few vintage MM's on my Ortofon AS-309 arm and the S wand from the P10. Removable headshells are heaven sent when trying out multiple cart's.
Not sure if they sound better than my expensive MC's but they are a lot better than I remember when I last used them 20+ years ago. ADC XLM III, AT AT25, Empire 1080LT, Ortofon M20FL super and an Elac ESG 795G - all cheap.

Go with your gut and it will be interesting if a current MM will sound better than you two excellent vintage MM's.

BTW, don't be afraid to try a MC as IMO the MC phono stage is a little better than the MM stage in the c2300.

cheers

[gregswaim]

Originally Posted by turntable

Where did you come up with removable headshell's = less solid, less precise tracking and worse sound than fixed tonearm? Is this thru listening or ??

I have 3 tables (including a LP12) with fixed tonearms and removable headshells. They all work great, some better than others depending on the cartridge / tonearms synergy.

Hi.
No, I have not determined this through listening-yet. A tonearm is a precision instrument, the more precise the instrument, the better it will preform. A tonearm as one solid piece is more likely to track better consistently vs one that has a removable headshell. Having the removable headshell may be of interest to folks that like to frequently change pickups, but I value precision vs convenience. Having a solid tonearm insures that the headshell will remain in place and not move.
I've not owned a tonearm that has had a removable headshell since my highschool days in the 70's.

[turntable]

Originally Posted by gregswaim

Hi.
No, I have not determined this through listening-yet. A tonearm is a precision instrument, the more precise the instrument, the better it will preform. A tonearm as one solid piece is more likely to track better consistently vs one that has a removable headshell. Having the removable headshell may be of interest to folks that like to frequently change pickups, but I value precision vs convenience. Having a solid tonearm insures that the headshell will remain in place and not move.
I've not owned a tonearm that has had a removable headshell since my highschool days in the 70's.

I find it always interesting that someone can have an informed opinion of something they have no first hand knowledge of.

I don't find any of my 9 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch, unipivot, gimble bearing, fixed headshell, removeable headeshell tonearms to track any better than each other. The cartridge OTOH has a bigger effect on tracking.

A 12 inch arm has less tracking distortion than a 9 inch.

Using your esteemed logic the Graham Phantom is another flawed product as it has a removable arm wand.

You may be better served giving your valued opinions on area's of hifi that you have first hand knowledge of.
Like upgrading a LP12 to a Radikal PS or a keel subchassis. What can you say about these upgrades as my LP12 is still in Cirkus, original Lingo status?.

cheers

[jetblack]

Dan,

If you had asked me this same question 30 yrs ago, I would have said 'MC rules 'supreme'. In those 30 yrs (into the 21st century), technology has made some strides. In the 21st century, one can make a choice between MM, and MC (where the correct pre-amp setup is required).

Perhaps you should not listen to my advice, because I'm somewhat biased (no pun intended). But the 2M black will give you the best bang for the buck (because of the shibata stylus)! Talking about digging down into the 'groove', and giving the most 'bang for your buck'.

The folks that upgraded my TT (I won't mention any names like 'Audio Atlanta'), said that if you go with the 2M black, you don't need to think about the MC route.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by jetblack

Dan,

If you had asked me this same question 30 yrs ago, I would have said 'MC rules 'supreme'. In those 30 yrs (into the 21st century), technology has made some strides. In the 21st century, one can make a choice between MM, and MC (where the correct pre-amp setup is required).

Perhaps you should not listen to my advice, because I'm somewhat biased (no pun intended). But the 2M black will give you the best bang for the buck (because of the shibata stylus)! Talking about digging down into the 'groove', and giving the most 'bang for your buck'.

The folks that upgraded my TT (I won't mention any names like 'Audio Atlanta'), said that if you go with the 2M black, you don't need to think about the MC route.

Jetblack.......I have heard this same point from several trusted audio folks about the Ortofon 2M Black. I find myself leaning in that direction.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Jetblack.......I have heard this same point from several trusted audio folks about the Ortofon 2M Black. I find myself leaning in that direction.

Looking forward to your impressions Dan.

[gregswaim]

Originally Posted by turntable

I find it always interesting that someone can have an informed opinion of something they have no first hand knowledge of.

I don't find any of my 9 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch, unipivot, gimble bearing, fixed headshell, removeable headeshell tonearms to track any better than each other. The cartridge OTOH has a bigger effect on tracking.

A 12 inch arm has less tracking distortion than a 9 inch.

Using your esteemed logic the Graham Phantom is another flawed product as it has a removable arm wand.

You may be better served giving your valued opinions on area's of hifi that you have first hand knowledge of.
Like upgrading a LP12 to a Radikal PS or a keel subchassis. What can you say about these upgrades as my LP12 is still in Cirkus, original Lingo status?.

cheers

G'day Shane.

Unless laws of physics or some other known absolute scientific principle is applied, all comments in hi fi are nothing more than opinions and speculations only in this fun hobby. Some would say knowledge plus experience yields wisdom. Since there's no way to prove scientifically that a removable headshell tracks no differently than one that is permanently mounted it becomes speculation only. On the same note, there's no way to prove scientifically that CD's don't sound as good as LP's because it's open to interpretation by each individual. My preference is LP's for older stuff and CD's for newer stuff.

Having the Cirkus bearing is a major plus, my first LP12 didn't have one- just a Ittok arm. I bought a new LP12 this year and have been upgrading since January. The Radikal PS is a huge step forward- the improvement is radical compared to the Lingo ll which was upgraded to the Radikal about a month or two ago. I have no experience with the Lingo l. I wanted a Keel but that would require a Naim Aro, Linn Ittok,Ekos or Ekos SE, tonearms. Some feel that the Keel is not so good, reading the Linn forums everyone that has one is suggesting to get this as a upgrade, maybe 1 or 2 say otherwise. Right now with all of the other combined upgrades in my analog system I'm in vinyl paradise! I'm completely amazed that records can sound this fantastic & I'm a long time vinyl freak.
I only started doing the CD thing in 2006. The only combo that works for me is McIntosh digital with McIntosh tubes- it just sounds right to me.
Akito ll vs Ekos SE using the same pickup was a small improvement to me at audition. Moving up in the Lyra line a more precision pickup will likely yield more of the differences and would then make the purchase more worthwhile,IMO. The EAR 324 yields better sound @ audition to me than does the Linn Urika,IMO.
I know that you're very passionate about your music because you play records() and have spent a lot of money on your vinyl playback setup.
Playing records these days is still considered a novelty by most, of course I don't agree with most people anyway.

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Serge.......Your assessment of the Clearaudio Meastro seems to be holding true to your initial impression after first setting it up and listening. Comments by Alberto paralleled yours, too. I look at this as a good thing. Sometimes, what starts out sounding impressive can turn south in a short period of time, leaving you wondering what happened. For me, the "message" and "essence" of music is what lights my fire. I don't want to just here playback, I want to be moved and excited by music. It certainly sounds as though the Clearaudio Meastro is doing that for you.

Good summary from Serge, as always. He summed up the reasons why I really like the Maestro. I can't think of anything else to add other than I'd buy another one without hesitation.

I also agree 100% with the "impressive at first can turn to fatiguing in the long run" theory. Micro-dynamics and details are fun for a while but - at least for me - they end up calling too much attention to "audiophile tricks" to the detriment of the music. These days I am going for Higher-Fun over Higher-Fidelity.

Alberto

[jdandy]

Decisions, decisions.