Considering adding a sub

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by wpines

So generally speaking, spending more money on one larger/higher quality sub is a better strategy to start out with?
One F113 instead of 2 F110's?

Agreed!

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by wpines

So generally speaking, spending more money on one larger/higher quality sub is a better strategy to start out with?
One F113 instead of 2 F110's?

I am going to have to disagree with Ivan on this one - or at least say that it may be system ... and room ... and sub dependent. Especially if this is more for music (which you mention) than for subterranean bass effects required by movies.

In my room, it took two subs (and many tries with different subs and positioning) to minimize standing waves modes and achieve that mythic perfect integration with the speakers.

Placing the second sub slightly asymmetrically to the first with respect to the room made a huge difference in my system. With a slow sweep signal (say 20-200Hz over 10 seconds) and an analyzer I could see and hear the "peaks and valley" in the frequency response and adjust them so that they we as even as possible. Much easier to do if you can move around two smaller subs.

Alberto

P.S. Also make sure that the sub you get is a good match dynamically with the speakers. I found some of the more expensive subs too 'fast' - especially if they are using class-D amplifiers. I am not sure how to best describe the effect, but when the sub starts and stops on a dime and the speakers are a bit more "relaxed" it sounds like the bass player and the drummer being out of sync. In my case, the less expensive Rel T-series was a better match than the R-series, T series uses a class A/B amp while the R-series uses a class D.

[US Blues]

What I don't understand is why subs, and crossover's like the Bryston, create a mono signal for the subs. For music reproduction two subs, each running left and right channel, is the ideal configuration. I have music in my collection that contains distinct low frequency info that is clearly separated by channel. Some things I just don't get...

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by US Blues

What I don't understand is why subs, and crossover's like the Bryston, create a mono signal for the subs. For music reproduction two subs, each running left and right channel, is the ideal configuration. I have music in my collection that contains distinct low frequency info that is clearly separated by channel. Some things I just don't get...

You can run 2 subs in stereo if you want.

[MasterLuJr]

JL Audio subs are the best!!

[PHC1]

I run 2 subs in my system and each one is a dedicated sub for each channel. On recordings that have a hard left or hard right paned instruments, the instruments are "fleshed out" with much greater presence.

To think that only deep bass instruments benefit from that effect would be wrong. I once had a lengthy discussion with the guys from Sumiko and they pointed out a fact that not one instrument starts and stops on a dime of their resonant frequency, they actually "ramp up" until they hit their resonant frequency and very often do produce low frequency information even though it is not very audible and for a very brief moment. This subtle energy creates "room pressurization" and when reproduced with subs, this creates a further effect of actually "being there" in the acoustical space where the recording took place.

As soon as I put 2 subs in my room, I noticed the acoustical space was reproduced with much greater clarity, as if my acoustical space was being erased and replaced with the space where the recording took place. Hard to explain but that subtle pressurization of the acoustical space walls, when reproduced properly will seem to recreate that recording space in a more believable way. The "palpability" effect of instruments on the soundstage is elevated to a much greater level.

I've heard great subs in great systems in well treated rooms and the effect is magnified in those rooms, so I am sure Ivan knows exactly what I am talking about here. The recording has to have some "acoustical space" on it for this effect to really be pronounced though.

I actually prefer the sealed, fast subs such as JL A Fathoms since they seem just fast enough to keep up with the fast drivers of monitors and 'stat panels and can also be used much higher up to augment monitors that don't reach very low. The ported subs add a little too much of their own acoustic signature where the sealed subs that are well designed and built with very little to no resonance from their cabinets will be virtually transparent.

No one would ever know I had 2 subs in my system if they were not visible. No wonder the Fathoms/Gothams have won so many awards as being the best subs out there.

[US Blues]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

You can run 2 subs in stereo if you want.

Perhaps some things are not clear to me. Units like the Bryston 10B Sub produce a mono output for the subs, as I understand their literature. It is unclear to me if the JL subs have a built-in crossover to relieve the main amps of the ultra-low frequencies. They offer the master/slave set-up for dual subs, but that looks like both subs run the same signal. Please advise!

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by US Blues

Perhaps some things are not clear to me. Units like the Bryston 10B Sub produce a mono output for the subs, as I understand their literature. It is unclear to me if the JL subs have a built-in crossover to relieve the main amps of the ultra-low frequencies. They offer the master/slave set-up for dual subs, but that looks like both subs run the same signal. Please advise!

JL subs do have a built in crossover. You can have a pair of them set up as master & slave, or have two masters (left & right).

Lot's of versatility.

[BuffaloBill]

Originally Posted by US Blues

For music reproduction two subs, each running left and right channel, is the ideal configuration. I have music in my collection that contains distinct low frequency info that is clearly separated by channel. Some things I just don't get...

Low bass frequencies have very long wave lengths. A 20Hz signal can take up to 56 feet before a stereo affect is noticed. For this reason, many are satisfied with only one sub. Others prefer two subs to remove any doubt.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by US Blues

Perhaps some things are not clear to me. Units like the Bryston 10B Sub produce a mono output for the subs, as I understand their literature. It is unclear to me if the JL subs have a built-in crossover to relieve the main amps of the ultra-low frequencies. They offer the master/slave set-up for dual subs, but that looks like both subs run the same signal. Please advise!

You can run a Bryston in mono if you want but it is a completely stereo unit with two channels and settings that are independent and adjustable.

Here is a pic of mine.