My first Shindo experience...

[Jerome W]

Thanks Stephen !!
Very nice !

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[gortnipper]

I have heard a hot-rodded 834P against a VS JLTi, the Monbrison's phono, and a VR phono. None of the inbuilt MC SUTs in any of these has come up better than an external SUT (have not listened to a Shindo SPU, however), so you really have not heard any of these to their full potential if you are using the inbuilt SUTs only. If I had to, I would rank all these in reverse order to how I listed them above.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Matt : I would LOVE that to the highest point.
Thanks a lot ! That will be a honor for me.

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That means if you came to the Bay Area, we could visit as well!

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

That means if you came to the Bay Area, we could visit as well!

I won't forget you buddy !

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[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by gortnipper

I have heard a hot-rodded 834P against a VS JLTi, the Monbrison's phono, and a VR phono. None of the inbuilt MC SUTs in any of these has come up better than an external SUT (have not listened to a Shindo SPU, however), so you really have not heard any of these to their full potential if you are using the inbuilt SUTs only. If I had to, I would rank all these in reverse order to how I listed them above.

Very interesting post, because that was the conclusion we came to as well!

I'll give you guys my two cents, maybe David will jump in with his; though I think his and my views are pretty closely aligned.

On the whole, and I mean by that for most (but not all, more on that in a moment), for most of the range of records and content we spun, I found the Monbrison's phono stage to have more midrange and low end magic with superior depth, spaciousness, layering and texturing to the EAR, but the EAR was more transparent and extended top end. The Monbrison's midrange had a real sweetness and loveliness to it that delivered a lovely and musical presentation. On some records, though, the top end of the Monbrison's phono stage seemed "attenuated", in the same way a JPEG resample of a digital photograph attenuates the three-quarter tones in a digital image compared to the RAW file (digital photographers here will know what I am talking about), and here the EAR was more transparent and extended on the top end. On the whole, though, I just don't think EAR was as well suited to this particular system as the Monbrison's was. And this was where I started to realize that David's system was just that: a system, where each and every component was specifically voiced to work with the others.

Additionally, these comments should not be viewed a implying the EAR 834 is not as good the Monbrison's on the whole, because I also own an 834P, and in other systems, I would say that it's very bit as layered, textured, nuanced and magical in the mids, lows and with the spatial depth as the Monbrison's. It just wasn't on David's particular Shindo system. The rule of component synergy with other components was never truer than here.

After some listening, we started to formulate the hypothesis that the attenuation of highs on the Monbrison might be due to the SUTs built into the Monbrison's phono stage. The reason for this was that when we listened to the Wadia or David's killer Esoteric universal disc player, there was none of the top end attenuation we observed with the phono stage, just a seamless and smooth presentation from top to bottom. This led us to the conclusion that the line stage portion of the Monbrison had no issues whatsoever, that whatever limitations we were hearing spinning LPs was in the phono stage, or...in the built-in step-up transformers (SUT).

I commented I would like to hear it with my Bob's Devices SUT going into the MM stage, as the Bob's Devices SUT in my system is better than the SUTs built into my EAR834P. David related the info that many Monbrison owners in fact do not use the built-in Shindo SUTs, but the Auditorium 23 SUT, so that may be consistent our hypothesis.

We continued to spin LPs for the rest of afternoon and throughout the evening, and enjoying ourselves while fixing a wonderful dinner.

After dinner, though, I put on my original copy of Ricki Lee Jones' Ricki Lee Jones, and I have to say it sounded amazing! This was with the Monbrison's phono stage, on this recording, there was no attenuation of highs at all, just gorgeous, gorgeous music. We were all, to put it mildiy, completely entranced.

So, on the whole, I preferred listening to LPs on the Monbrison's phono stage; I can't say it's the best phono stage I've ever heard, because I don't think it is, but regardless, it provided for me the best musical experience of the day.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Very interesting post, because that was the conclusion we came to as well!

I'll give you guys my two cents, maybe David will jump in with his; though I think his and my views are pretty closely aligned.

On the whole, and I mean by that for most (but not all, more on that in a moment), for most of the range of records and content we spun, I found the Monbrison's phono stage to have more midrange and low end magic with superior depth, spaciousness, layering and texturing to the EAR, but the EAR was more transparent and extended top end. The midrange had a real sweetness and loveliness to it that delivered a lovely and musical presentation. On some records, though, the top end of the Monbrison's phono stage seemed "attenuated", in the same way a JPEG resample of a digital photograph attenuates the three-quarter tones in a digital image compared to the RAW file (digital photographers here will know what I am talking about), and here the EAR was more transparent and extended on the top end. On the whole, though, I just don't think EAR was as well suited to this particular system as the Monbrison's was. And this was where I started to realize that David's system was just that: a system, where each and every component was specifically voiced to work with the others.

Additionally, these comments should not be viewed a implying the EAR 834 is not as good the Monbrison's on the whole, because I also own an 834P, and in other systems, I would say that it's very bit as layered, textured, nuanced and magical in the mids and with the performance lows and the spatial depth as the Monbrison's. It just wasn't on David's particular Shindo system. The rule of component synergy with other components was never truer than here.

After some listening, we started to formulate the hypothesis that the attenuation of highs on the Monbrison might be due to the SUTs built into the Monbrison's phono stage. The reason for this was that when we listend to the Wadia or David's killer Esoteric universal disc player, there was none of the top end attenuation we observed with the phono stage, just a seamless and smooth presentation from top to bottom. This led us to the conclusion that the line stage portion of the Monbrison had no issues whatsoever, that whatever limitations we were hearing spinning LPs was in the phono stage, or...in the built-in step-up transformers (SUT).

I commented I would like to hear it with my Bob's Devices SUT going into the MM stage, as the Bob's Devices SUT in my system is better than the SUTs built into my EAR834P. David related the info that many Monbrison owners in fact do not use the built-in Shindo SUTs, but the Auditorium 23 SUT, so that may be consistent our hypothesis.

We continued to spin LPs for the rest of afternoon and throughout the evening, and enjoying ourselves while fixing a wonderful dinner.

After dinner, though, I put on my original copy of Ricki Lee Jones' Ricki Lee Jones', and I have to say it sounded bloody fantastic! This was with the Monbrison's phono stage, on this recording, there was no attenuation of highs at all, just gorgeous, gorgeous music. We were all, to put it mildiy, entranced.

So, on the whole, I preferred listening to LPs on the Monbrison's phono stage; I can't say it's the best phono stage I've ever heard, because I don't think it is, but regardless, it provided for me the best musical experience of the day.

Stephen : lucky guy !
Seems that you got an other nice session !

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[pitch perfect]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Very interesting post, because that was the conclusion we came to as well!

I'll give you guys my two cents, maybe David will jump in with his; though I think his and my views are pretty closely aligned.

On the whole, and I mean by that for most (but not all, more on that in a moment), for most of the range of records and content we spun, I found the Monbrison's phono stage to have more midrange and low end magic with superior depth, spaciousness, layering and texturing to the EAR, but the EAR was more transparent and extended top end. The Monbrison's midrange had a real sweetness and loveliness to it that delivered a lovely and musical presentation. On some records, though, the top end of the Monbrison's phono stage seemed "attenuated", in the same way a JPEG resample of a digital photograph attenuates the three-quarter tones in a digital image compared to the RAW file (digital photographers here will know what I am talking about), and here the EAR was more transparent and extended on the top end. On the whole, though, I just don't think EAR was as well suited to this particular system as the Monbrison's was. And this was where I started to realize that David's system was just that: a system, where each and every component was specifically voiced to work with the others.

Additionally, these comments should not be viewed a implying the EAR 834 is not as good the Monbrison's on the whole, because I also own an 834P, and in other systems, I would say that it's very bit as layered, textured, nuanced and magical in the mids, lows and with the spatial depth as the Monbrison's. It just wasn't on David's particular Shindo system. The rule of component synergy with other components was never truer than here.

After some listening, we started to formulate the hypothesis that the attenuation of highs on the Monbrison might be due to the SUTs built into the Monbrison's phono stage. The reason for this was that when we listened to the Wadia or David's killer Esoteric universal disc player, there was none of the top end attenuation we observed with the phono stage, just a seamless and smooth presentation from top to bottom. This led us to the conclusion that the line stage portion of the Monbrison had no issues whatsoever, that whatever limitations we were hearing spinning LPs was in the phono stage, or...in the built-in step-up transformers (SUT).

I commented I would like to hear it with my Bob's Devices SUT going into the MM stage, as the Bob's Devices SUT in my system is better than the SUTs built into my EAR834P. David related the info that many Monbrison owners in fact do not use the built-in Shindo SUTs, but the Auditorium 23 SUT, so that may be consistent our hypothesis.

We continued to spin LPs for the rest of afternoon and throughout the evening, and enjoying ourselves while fixing a wonderful dinner.

After dinner, though, I put on my original copy of Ricki Lee Jones' Ricki Lee Jones, and I have to say it sounded amazing! This was with the Monbrison's phono stage, on this recording, there was no attenuation of highs at all, just gorgeous, gorgeous music. We were all, to put it mildiy, completely entranced.

So, on the whole, I preferred listening to LPs on the Monbrison's phono stage; I can't say it's the best phono stage I've ever heard, because I don't think it is, but regardless, it provided for me the best musical experience of the day.

Like I mentioned in a prior reply, the Sumiko is not designed for the internal step up.

The fact you loved it, however, is great. But it would have even been significantly better, if it was heard in the correct light, with the correctly matched step up.

The internal step up is designed for low impedance cartridges.

-M

[jdandy]

Stephen.......Seeing those Altec Valencia cabinets bring back memories for me. I owned a pair of Valencias in the 70's, and loved them. I had them for years. Ultra efficient, played plenty loud, and had a very live sound to the music. I can see why Shindo would select this speaker, and custom design a crossover for it. The Altec Valencia is a fine speaker.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Stephen.......Seeing those Altec Valencia cabinets bring back memories for me. I owned a pair of Valencias in the 70's, and loved them. I had them for years. Ultra efficient, played plenty loud, and had a very live sound to the music. I can see why Shindo would select this speaker, and custom design a crossover for it. The Altec Valencia is a fine speaker.

Dan,
Which amps did you use with them ?
MC30's ?

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[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by pitchperfect

Like I mentioned in a prior reply, the Sumiko is not designed for the internal step up.

The fact you loved it, however, is great. But it would have even been significantly better, if it was heard in the correct light, with the correctly matched step up.

The internal step up is designed for low impedance cartridges.

-M

I agree that it was not optimal; we all knew that listening to the combinations of phono preamps. This is why we came to the consensus that we would have liked to have heard it with other SUTs, as I described in the post above.